Bleed for double sided layout but single page pdf output for print

[NoSi]

I want to create a book with a double sided layout and "full page pictures". The print shop expects single pages.

I need double sided layout because some pictures will spread over two pages – in this case everything works fine because the cut splits a single image that is tied together at the end – more ore less precise but this is a processing challenge.

This is the challenge:

Placing two images on the layout pages one of them will overlap the other if I want to have the cutting edge covered with the bleed overlap.

All my attempts lead to a useless output:

Red: Setup in Publisher  Yellow: Output

(1) This is the fold that shall be thread binded with single pages.

(2) Left: Edge of the "odd page image" that ends with the bleed (3mm). Right: It is covered by the "even page image".

(3) Left: Edge of the "even page image" that ends at the bleed, too. Right: It overlaps the "odd page image"

Placing the images exactly on the spine the bleed of both pages contain the image of the opposite page. This would be acceptable if all cuts are within the bleed. But if the cut is inside the tolerance area of the page (3mm) a small flashof the image of the opposite page will disturb in the spine area.

How can I achieve single page output from a double sided layout with the correct bleed content?

[wonderings]

I think you may be over thinking this if I am understanding this correct. 

You have a book you want to print. You setup your document with "facing pages" in increments of 4. Do all your setup, images go across spreads, etc. The only thing you need to do now is when you export to PDF, select "all pages" in stead of "all spreads". Make sure other settings are correct like including bleed and crop marks. This will give you a single page PDF with bleeds ready for your print shop. 

8 page template.afpub

[NoSi]

this generates single pages with wrong bleed.

The single pages are obviously generated from the visual content of the double sided layout instead of the page content that should define the bleed content. Because of that the image of the opposite page is shown in the bleed instead of the image of the printed page that is placed the plane below (or above with the opposite effect).

One option could be to produce all pages, change the plane order, produce again and combine pages from these two processes into the required final document. But I can hardly believe that this currently seems to be the only way to achieve the required output for the pint shop.

[wonderings]

38 minutes ago, NoSi said:

this generates single pages with wrong bleed.

The single pages are obviously generated from the visual content of the double sided layout instead of the page content that should define the bleed content. Because of that the image of the opposite page is shown in the bleed instead of the image of the printed page that is placed the plane below (or above with the opposite effect).

One option could be to produce all pages, change the plane order, produce again and combine pages from these two processes into the required final document. But I can hardly believe that this currently seems to be the only way to achieve the required output for the pint shop.

You have lost me. I have been in print a while now and this is all I would need to print a book with bleeds for saddle stitch with images going across a spread. Are you able to upload the file you are working with or screen shots of the spreads and what you are trying to achieve?

[NoSi]

Images across the bleed are not the problem. If i want to put two different images on a layout page touching the spine it looks nice, if this layout page can be printed as shown.

But I need this layout page splitted into single pages. In this case currently the bleed contains for the left page a small strip of the right image and vice versa.

Depending on the precision of the paper cut, this strip can be omitted: wonderful, the page looks good.
However, if the cut goes into the bleed area, this strip shows up. It would be nicer if the actual picture was in the bleed, because then it ends in the spine of the book instead of at the edge of the picture on the next page.

(→ I am German and try to translate the German technical terms into English –not shure wether this is always correct and clear)

[wonderings]

34 minutes ago, NoSi said:

Images across the bleed are not the problem. If i want to put two different images on a layout page touching the spine it looks nice, if this layout page can be printed as shown.

But I need this layout page splitted into single pages. In this case currently the bleed contains for the left page a small strip of the right image and vice versa.

Depending on the precision of the paper cut, this strip can be omitted: wonderful, the page looks good.
However, if the cut goes into the bleed area, this strip shows up. It would be nicer if the actual picture was in the bleed, because then it ends in the spine of the book instead of at the edge of the picture on the next page.

(→ I am German and try to translate the German technical terms into English –not shure wether this is always correct and clear)

ah ok I understand now. The image is not crossing the spread, there are 2 images both end in the centre of the spread at the stitch point. So with this you would have bleed from the other side, this is normal and should be fine as the images go into each as they meet in the centre. When the job gets imposed it is going to be right against something anyways and will not have bleed in that area. Also if this is a thicker book you are going to lose some image into the natural curve of the sheet when you open it.

From my experience in print you are fine. Set it up in spreads as you would normally do. Leave your bleed around the outside edges, do not worry about it in the binding area. If you wanted to go that route you would need to work in single pages, but again I think this is unnecessary as when imposed it will not have bleed there anyways. 

If you are dealing with small quantities it will be printed digitally. I have attached a sample imposition of a magazine with saddle stitch binding. You can see in the imposition that there is no bleed in the binding area. 

Sample_imposition_for_digital_print_-_reduced.pdf

[NoSi]

Your example is convincing and thank you for the nice explanation. 

I have now looked at it from another angle: If it were a layout print and the binding was inaccurate, the same problem would arise. However, this should be more noticeable than a (very) bad paper cut of the single sheets that are bound.

That is just the way it is.