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I quite often open people's PDF files that have come from Word/Publisher and these are invariably RGB. So I'd definitely like to see the opening tab of the Document Setop tab show the colour space. I'd like to see the tabs rearranged to be Colour, Bleed, Layout. Even better would be to have them all in a single dialogue box. There isn't enough info to justify 3 tabs.

Windows 10 Pro, I5 3.3G PC 16G RAM

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3 hours ago, Lagarto said:
20 hours ago, Lagarto said:

2) Your text color is K100, but it converts to rich black when you export to PDF. This, as mentioned, is caused by embedding a color profile in the pdf, and not using X-4 standard. An embedded color profile causes conversion of K values to rich black in other PDF export methods.

Quoting myself... This happens EVEN if the embedded color profile is the document color profile, which IMO is a mistake.

If the documents color space is CMYK then the exported PDF (print preset) is CMYK, too, and therefore a 100 K text remains 100 K.

So I am not sure what you man with "EVEN": if the document is RGB and you export with an RGB profile the resulting PDF is forced by your choice not to be CMYK (which would be necessary for 100 K) but it MUST be in RGB because of your setting. In RGB you simply can not define a K-only color, the pure K channel does not exist in RGB.

I experience a weird behavior when I export a RGB .afpub with its document profile as X-4 PDF: then its document profile (eg. Adobe RGB) seems to be ignored (though it is set) but AfPub exports the PDF with an "Output Intent" of "U.S. web coated SWOP (v2)" – regardless of the used and set profile, both in document AND in app preferences.

 

3 hours ago, Lagarto said:

InDesign (...) This setting is likely to cause lots of troubles for Affinity Publisher users...

In my opinion the problems are not caused by the settings of the export options profile, but by 1.) the buttons "Convert" and "Assign" in AfPub, which seem to have no or only limited functionality compared to InDesign, and 2.) the Handling of the "Output Intent", which is often ignored or unwanted replaced during export. I would say that the problem is not the UI or the number of tabs, but the not clear use of profiles when exporting.

 

1 hour ago, MickRose said:

I just think the word "Print" as an option is very misleading. There is a big difference between settings needed for a small inkjet ptinter and for an outsourced litho press and the dialogue boxes should reflect that difference very clearly.

There is no such "very clear" difference which could be provided by the app UI. There are too many different possible combinations, e.g.

  • convert colors or assign color profiles,
  • embed profile and/or embed Output Intent,
  • use document profile or a printers profile,

which needs to be known and individually set for a specific print workflow. This preset "for Print" works fine regarding colors if the document + the export color settings are CMYK. The preset "for Print" is kind of clear if you compare it with the "for Export": "for Export" simply does NO adjustment to the .afpub's content.

If you import or open an RGB document in a CMYK .afpub an according warning can be set in the app preferences & and in the document setup – but unfortunately it seems to be ignored by the app. In that way there is less lack in a more clear UI (eg. less tabs) but rather a bug in a selectable but not working functionality:

I can tick the warning box – but never get a warning in AfPub:

799188846_colorsettingconvertappprefs.jpg.f26b54a6b385c03d998e7ced541c411f.jpg

I can click the "Assign" button – but the app seems to ignore it and always jumped back to "Convert" if this setup window gets re-opened, even if "Convert" is not ticked in the app prefs.

1066309377_colorsettingconvertdocprefs.jpg.4e114d0e3314cb763dade57b8913ffe7.jpg

So my confusion is less caused by the UI layout (indeed unnecessary spread) – but rather by the kind of unknown functionality which really works behind the user's setting.

 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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4 hours ago, thomaso said:

I can tick the warning box – but never get a warning in AfPub:

799188846_colorsettingconvertappprefs.jpg.f26b54a6b385c03d998e7ced541c411f.jpg

As I understand it, the 'Convert' option must be enabled for the warning to appear. Also keep in mind that the working space is an intermediate one, not the output one.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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11 hours ago, MickRose said:

I quite often open people's PDF files that have come from Word/Publisher and these are invariably RGB. So I'd definitely like to see the opening tab of the Document Setop tab show the colour space. I'd like to see the tabs rearranged to be Colour, Bleed, Layout. Even better would be to have them all in a single dialogue box. There isn't enough info to justify 3 tabs.

I agree. If they could make the Document Setup, the same as the New dialog. It would be great and less confusing.

 

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9 hours ago, thomaso said:

If the documents color space is CMYK then the exported PDF (print preset) is CMYK, too, and therefore a 100 K text remains 100 K.

This is not always the case. We had some weird PDF's that came through that would only print correctly if the preset was based upon the PDF/X4 selection. We found out the hard way with some really strange printing. When checked with Pitstop it was showing the transparency effects were still RGB even though it was using the PDF for print setting. That may have been fixed in 1.7 though.

Here is that thread:

 

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17 hours ago, Lagarto said:

Have you tried? If you use default PDF Export (print), where you have document color profile embedded, your K text definitions will be converted to rich black. Leave out the profile, and they will not. (Current release version 1.7.3.481.)  

CMYK_export.pdf

CMYK_export_noprofile_embedded.pdf

(Sample files having IsoCoated V2 (ECI) as document color profile.) 

Yes, I have tried of cause. I also have checked your two PDFs and they both occur with 100 K to me. It might depend on your app which opens the PDF. Unfortunately in a PDF with print preset Affinity does NOT save an "Output Intent" info:

1118460596_pdfprofileoutputintent2.jpg.9382580954c9abd15566e01f70cb3543.jpg

... and therefore you need to make sure you see & judge the PDF with the wanted profile (Simulation Profile):

491910164_pdfprofilesimulation1.jpg.11bea03c1982d5879ad0f8b345e0c319.jpg



Whereas in a PDF with "Output Intent" info included the profile is marked as such and forces the viewer to use this specific profile ("Ausgabebedingung" = output condition):

1334595454_pdfprofileoutputintent3.jpg.a9def55a8c3b28a900ee2a72dc1db3e0.jpg

550515751_pdfprofileoutputintent.jpg.d5e956118a214d431091e27404a0f0fb.jpg

 

13 hours ago, Bryce said:

This is not always the case. We had some weird PDF's that came through that would only print correctly if the preset was based upon the PDF/X4 selection. 

As the screenshot in your linked post shows, this previous app version had not yet included the option "Convert image color spaces" in its export setting – whereas your pdf is shown with a CMYK profile, just a blend mode still uses RGB because of the former lack of the image convert option. So I guess your result would be different if you export nowadays with that option ticked.

464741832_pdfprofileconvertcolors.jpg.b0e3020bbcafbb54ed6ee54604ae2cd1.jpg


So, to me the issue Affinity does not enable to save the Output Intent when exporting with the "PDF (for print)" preset.
Therefore you still need to export as PDF/X-4 instead.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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9 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

Intention could well be included when the profile is embedded 

I guess the combination of embed & intent would be against the PDF specifications and might result in error messages in an automatic print workflow.

But a checkbox besides "Embed profile" which offers "Output intent" if embed is unchecked could avoid such issues for those who want to use the PDF-for-print preset instead of PDF/X. It even could be set automatically: AS SOON "Embed profile" is NOT ticked the "output intent" could be saved with the pdf? Not sure whether that would be according to the PDF specs, probably @MikeW might know.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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37 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

strangely not the color definitions of document palette swatches

Swatches color spaces are also a weird and rich but quite different topic and reported a few times in various threads. It might be more effective (for a successful fix) if you mention their issues as a separate bug report rather than within this discussion – even though, or in particular because, it already had moved away from its initial "text 100 K" topic.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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It took us a while to figure out the color export workings of Affinity, but once we have, it is more reliable than Indesign is in color. As a print shop, we highly recommend Affinity and will help people get the correct color settings. We certainly don't want profiles embedded but we still want them correct. That is also why we must use plugins such as Enfocus Pitstop to correct some of the PDF's no matter where they come from. Affinity and Adobe can make correct PDF's if their settings are correct. Microsoft and many other programs cannot make correct PDF's no matter what you choose.

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