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Request: Numeric values in Curves adjustment


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Unfortunately the Curves dialog still misses any information about the numeric value of the selected point (input value / output value). It's really hard to set the points to their exact positions without seeing the numbers. =(

(I found similar request from 2016 in "Older Feedback" so it seems it's been abandoned.)

 

affinity-curves.thumb.png.80c87cebaea31f97002d332c698dcb9c.png

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Yes, numbers in the curves dialog would be more than welcome. Anyway, curves could be extended way beyond what Photoshop offers, for example being able to zoom to a specific part of the curve, enter non-integer values, or choose numbers range (sometimes it is better to work with 0-255, or with 0-100, 0-65535, etc.) This is espcially useful whan handling LAB corrections or scientific images.

And ability to select more than one point on  the curve would be great, too! In Photoshop, I can adjust contrast of the specific tonal range using two points, e.g. (50, 25) and (100, 50). Then I can select these two points and move them upwards or downwards, which lightens or darkens that tonal range, but the cotrast is left untouched.

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11 hours ago, Petr Lobaz said:

curves could be extended way beyond what Photoshop offers

Definitely, but I am afraid that there are so many bugs and requests waiting to be fixed or implemented that it won't happen anytime soon. :(

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I agree that "extenting possibilities beyond Photoshop" has zero priority, generally. But sometimes, the extension is for free. For example, we agree that numbers in curves editor would be great. Allowing them to be non-integer is for free in the programmer's view, as the curve is calculated in floating point anyway. It is just a useless restriction of the input box that does not allow decimal point.

Another example: you can define opacity for a layer, from 0 to 100 %. Then there is a simple formula that calculates final color. But, this formula does not require opacity to be from 0 to 100 -- the formula works for any number, e.g., 200 % or -50 %. There is no reason to restrict the user from inputting such numbers -- the only thing the programmer must do is to handle the opacity slider somehow.

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On 10/11/2019 at 8:08 PM, Petr Lobaz said:

But sometimes, the extension is for free.

Sure, I think all this stuff could be added within an hour or two  (two or three new dialog items and a few lines of code handling the conversions) but there are many similar requests around waiting to be implemented. It seems the developers focus mostly on bugs crashing the whole app...

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  • 3 months later...

Are there any news about it? Tried to set a point in the middle on Lab curves, but it is nearly impossible. so the color or luminosity changes as I set a point because its impossible to hit it without moving. that would really a big help for working, because one of the strengths of affinity is to have different color models in curves adjustments without changing the colorspace of the picture. 

That is one of the points to make me think of changing back to photoshop....

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  • 2 months later...
  • 9 months later...
On 10/7/2019 at 12:08 AM, Gunny said:

Unfortunately the Curves dialog still misses any information about the numeric value of the selected point (input value / output value)

+1000!

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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On 10/7/2019 at 12:08 AM, Gunny said:

It's really hard to set the points to their exact positions without seeing the numbers

While rebuilding a couple of my old saved presets from Photoshop CS5.5, I've actually had to resort to zooming the display (on Mac: System Preferences > Accessibility > Zoom > Use scroll gesture with modifier keys to zoom) and count the actual pixels by the quarter grid! Sheesh! In 2021?! Feels like 1995 on System 7 again… :/

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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My goodness, this has been requested as far back as JULY 2015!

 

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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19 hours ago, loukash said:

+1000!

Something is coming. I didn't expect decimal numbers, too geeky, but now arrow keys can be used.

Check out the latest beta to try for yourself.

image.png.b58c51c7c7c6e4dff85d7994083c0f89.png

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
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  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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1 minute ago, Jowday said:

Something is coming.

Yay!

1 minute ago, Jowday said:

Check out the latest beta to try for yourself.

Nah, thanks, I'll wait. Already beta testing other apps… :)

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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15 hours ago, Jowday said:

Something is coming. I didn't expect decimal numbers, too geeky, but now arrow keys can be used.

Unbelievable! 😃

Actually, Levels display values as float <0, 1> too so it keeps the style but I think it would be nice if we could change the display range to 8bit integer <0, 255>.

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2 hours ago, Gunny said:

Actually, Levels display values as float <0, 1> too so it keeps the style but I think it would be nice if we could change the display range to 8bit integer <0, 255>.

They style is a terrible design choice made by an engineer. Now the values must follow suit as a domino brick consequence of that terrible design choice. It is almost like using RawTherapee's sliders.

Photoshop of course also works with floats behind the user interface. But the user is allowed to work with much easier numbers that can be remembered, shared and makes more sense outside a CPU, inside a human brain. How many Serif costumers work in float numbers on a daily basis in any activity in their lifes? How many of the customers coming for tutorials and advice on this forum? How many of the customers who purchased the books?

I still remember the integer values I used for various LAB curves I made in Photoshop 16 YEARS ago. 

Only Rainman would remember sets of values like X: 0,247, Y: 0,234.

ps_int.gif.b7e8124c75ce2d3b53fb00dd1da8782e.gif

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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4 hours ago, Jowday said:

They style is a terrible design choice made by an engineer.

It's not that simple. Photoshop could rely on 8bit channels in the old days , but today you can have 16bit or 32bit channels so having universal representation <0, 1> makes some sense. Having numbers like 32123 and 30524 would not be too helpful either and the range <0, 255> might not precise enough for some users. But I still believe Affinity could add another control to the dialog od Levels and Curve to switch the values from <0, 1> to <0, 255>. Or make it a global setting for all dialogs. After all, the colour picker still uses the 8bit range <0, 255>.

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This is the cu

34 minutes ago, Gunny said:

It's not that simple. Photoshop could rely on 8bit channels in the old days , but today you can have 16bit or 32bit channels so having universal representation <0, 1> makes some sense. Having numbers like 32123 and 30524 would not be too helpful either and the range <0, 255> might not precise enough for some users. But I still believe Affinity could add another control to the dialog od Levels and Curve to switch the values from <0, 1> to <0, 255>. Or make it a global setting for all dialogs. After all, the colour picker still uses the 8bit range <0, 255>.

No, it is not simple behind the user interface - but the values in Photoshop do not reflect channel bit depth. This is the curves dialog when making adjustments to a 32-bit image in Photoshop CC 2021. Still only using values from 0 - 255 or pigment ink/values from 0 to 100%

This is my point - users are not supposed to deal with math and bit depths but with meaningful easy to use, easy to understand, easy to remember tools.

Speaking of - PS also has the extremely useful white, grey and black samplers.

image.png.309ebc67ef0a5a1c192cf9f8ee5e99d3.png

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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2 hours ago, Jowday said:

it is not simple behind the user interface

Actually, the curve from point [0, 0] is not that complicated. 😃

y = a*x^2 + b*x

(or y = a*x^3 + b*x^2 + c*x with three control points and so on)

You just have to put in the control points and solve the coefficients a and b (and c). I did that for one of my utilities and it worked just like old Photoshop.

2 hours ago, Jowday said:

Still only using values from 0 - 255 or pigment ink/values from 0 to 100%

I guess it's a matter of taste. I am also used to the range <0, 255> but float values enable more accurate control. The downside is that you can't simply tell RGB values from that because they are <0, 255>.

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On 1/26/2021 at 2:47 PM, unni said:

Many thanks to the AP team for providing this feature !  @MEB

I had requested this in OCT 2019.

Now I can seriously apply learnings from Dan Margulis on LAB processing.

Not much changed though.

But this is still making LAB not-so-fun to use in Photo:

  • A visual mess - all curves show at the same time with various colours
  • Colours are misleading
    • AOpponent curve (just label it 'Channel A') is represented with green, kind of OK, it 'adjusts' magenta <-> green
    • BOpponent curve (just label it 'Channel B') is represented with magenta, wrong, it 'adjusts' yellow <-> blue

AOpponent... what? Channel A.

Photo 1.9 - even when adjusting one single channel:

image.png.a24c005d1e3b97acab063139e7c74816.png

Worst case example - overlapping curves:

image.png.1a24019b030fb5734446fdd2661d21a7.png

Adobe Photoshop since forever - much, much better:

image.png.8fe82e7f0588ad7096246c04d61ed0f9.png

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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For anyone who has used PS a lot, there will be a natural expectation to have same or similar interface. As i know, AP internals are different from PS and it has only kept some of the basic PS type interfaces to aid in easy transition. As long as the requirements are met, it is fine and i keep going forward, otherwise will get stuck in comparing. AP team is very good in listening to the customers voices, providing solutions and implementing whatever is possible or required. @Jowday

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I just disagree with most of that.

There is no reason to make basic usability mistakes when it is so easy to avoid with a little assistance from real specialists.

1 hour ago, unni said:

For anyone who has used PS a lot, there will be a natural expectation to have same or similar interface. As i know, AP internals are different from PS and it has only kept some of the basic PS type interfaces to aid in easy transition. As long as the requirements are met, it is fine and i keep going forward, otherwise will get stuck in comparing. AP team is very good in listening to the customers voices, providing solutions and implementing whatever is possible or required

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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2 hours ago, unni said:

As long as the requirements are met, it is fine and i keep going forward, otherwise will get stuck in comparing.

It's not about comparing the layout of dialogs. It's about usability. The purpose determines the shape of every tool. A hammer is better at driving nails than a rock but the hammer must be of the right size and its handle must be of the appropriate length. Adobe just has been producing "hammers" for some  time and they got pretty close to the ideal shape.

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There are various image processing softwares available in the market and PS is one of the best applications. Whichever software suits, one should go with it and ignore the rest.  In the end, its what we do with a tool that matters and there is no point in keeping an unusable tool.

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  • 1 year later...

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