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190924

 

 

Well, now that I have a 100-page book almost ready for the printer, I’m running into more problems. Perhaps I am wrong, but I seem to remember that if you added or deleted pages in InDesign, the document text would SHIFT but the pages would retain its facing pages format.

 

 

1. I am now ready to add the front matter to my book and have noticed just adding a page has shifted the left/right format THROUGHOUT the book. I had this happen when the book only had a few pages and manually made things right. However, with 100+ pages to deal with, it is a super waste of time. I’m certain there is a way around this, but I don’t know what it is.

 

 

2. Also, I just opened up space for my few graphics and photos and didn’t worry about text wrap. Thus, if I SELECT ALL and try to move things that way all my photos will be out of sync ... taking up more time. Will someone tell me how to have the photos and graphics stay where they were placed, relative to the text, regardless of how the page is moved.

 

 

3. Finally, I’ve come across a problem I not seen before. As I started typing “ACKNOWLEDGMENTS,”—with the cursor on the left—the words start appearing in the upper RIGHT instead of the upper LEFT. I was to have this thing ready for press by the end of the month but I am coming across so many problems with these last 9 or 10 pages.

 

 

Kindest Regards,

 

 

Bill

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4 minutes ago, WJC said:

2. Also, I just opened up space for my few graphics and photos and didn’t worry about text wrap. Thus, if I SELECT ALL and try to move things that way all my photos will be out of sync ... taking up more time. Will someone tell me how to have the photos and graphics stay where they were placed, relative to the text, regardless of how the page is moved.

Take a look at the Pinning studio, that should do what you want if I understand you correctly


Due to the fact that Boris Johnson is now our Prime Minister, punctuation, spelling and grammar will never be worried about ever again.  We now have far bigger problems to be concerned about.

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1. I am now ready to add the front matter to a book and have noticed just adding a page has shifted the left/right format of facing pages THROUGHOUT the book. I had this happen when the book only had a few pages and manually made things right. However, with 100+ pages to deal with, it is a super waste of time. I’m certain there is a way around this, but I don’t know what it is. Please help. I have not found a video tutorial that could.

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12 hours ago, WJC said:

Thank you!!! That worked wonderfully. Can you help me with #1?

I don't work with facing pages so I can't help you with that one but I'm sure others will be able to do so

15 hours ago, WJC said:

3. Finally, I’ve come across a problem I not seen before. As I started typing “ACKNOWLEDGMENTS,”—with the cursor on the left—the words start appearing in the upper RIGHT instead of the upper LEFT.

Sounds like some sort of right-alignment issue but without a sample page to examine it may be difficult to accurately advise on what is going on. Can you upload a sample cut-down document that shows the issue?


Due to the fact that Boris Johnson is now our Prime Minister, punctuation, spelling and grammar will never be worried about ever again.  We now have far bigger problems to be concerned about.

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With regard to #1 could you not add a blank sheet after the front cover?


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Even a blank sheet will have a format. I have, acknowledgments, preface, foreword, index, and introduction. This will not be my last book, so the information is very important. As I recall, it was an automatic thing with InDesign. Anyway, thank you for your courteous concern. :)

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On 9/25/2019 at 4:49 PM, WJC said:

1. I am now ready to add the front matter to my book and have noticed just adding a page has shifted the left/right format THROUGHOUT the book.

Is not it a misconception that you only want to add 1 page?

As far as I understand your approach, you want an extra paper between cover and book. Although you might want to only use one side of this extra sheet for text (or text on none at all), this piece of paper still has two sides (=pages); possibly one side gets glued to the backside of the cover's front page. So adding a spread with 2 pages sounds right in my imagination. Otherwise I haven't yet understood your request correctly.


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Attached is my problem.

I am trying to get a book to press. I have to add a Foreword, Index, Preface, and Introduction. The first attachment shows the Introduction as it is, now. The second shows how just adding or deleting ONE page restructures the margins THROUGHOUT the book. I COULD change the margins manually. But for a 100+ page book that is a terrible waste of time and, since I will be writing more books, I need to know how to avoid the problem in the first place.

Screen Shot 2019-09-26 at 10.07.54 AM.png

Screen Shot 2019-09-26 at 10.09.27 AM.png

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17 hours ago, WJC said:

The second shows how just adding or deleting ONE page restructures the margins THROUGHOUT the book.

Why would you expect this not to happen? In 2 page spread setups, side margins are set to inner & outer values, so of course adding or deleting just one page (or any odd number of pages) would change the side margins of all the following pages.

To avoid this, as has been suggested, add or delete only even numbers of pages, leaving the left or right page(s) of the spread empty of content as needed to preserve the desired left/right margin structure.


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4 hours ago, R C-R said:

Why would you expect this not to happen? In 2 page spread setups, side margins are set to inner & outer values, so of course adding or deleting just one page (or any odd number of pages) would change the side margins of all the following pages.

I would expect that left handed pages remain left handed regardless of the number of pages I added. I view the current behaviour as undesirable.

I do realize that the entire document would have to be redrawn but it has to be redrawn if I change the dimensions of a linked text frame on the master page, or if I change the position of a linked text frame etc.


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1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

I would expect that left handed pages remain left handed regardless of the number of pages I added. I view the current behaviour as undesirable.

I agree, a shift of content on not shifted master margins should not happen. I wonder if this issue is a consequence of a way master pages were set and/or assigned.

• Why is in the lower screenshot the content of page 4 offset – but its page number isn't?
• Why is page number 5 inside, as if a left page – but its margins aren't?

@WJC,

On 9/26/2019 at 6:23 PM, WJC said:

adding or deleting ONE page restructures the margins THROUGHOUT the book.

Do you understand that left/right must become "restructered THROUGHOUT the book" if you add "ONE" single page only and to the beginning? So, this "restructure" is not your issue, but only content positioning is, right?

• Is your master a spread of 2 pages – or are there single master pages, one for left, one for right?
• Can you fix it with re-assigning the master? Test with page 1-6.
• Would it make a difference if you first add the additional page(s) to the END of the document – and move them afterwards to the beginning?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

I would expect that left handed pages remain left handed regardless of the number of pages I added.

I'm probably misunderstanding you, but if I add 1 page somewhere how can the left-handed page that follows it possibly remain left-handed? (Applies to the right-handed page that follows, too, of course.)

Things can only remain the same if you add a multiple of two pages.

 


-- Walt

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1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

I would expect that left handed pages remain left handed regardless of the number of pages I added.

Much like Walt said, how can you have left & right pages unless the .afpub document is set up to use 2 page spreads? And if that is true, how can any page following the insertion of an odd number of pages not change from left to right or right to left?

Do you expect there to be a blank spot added in the Pages panel or some such? 


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Oh, my. At first, I couldn’t get any help. Now I’m swimming in helpers. I am confused concerning who and how to answer first. The most important thing is for ALL of you to know that this newbie thanks you VERY MUCH. And I will try to respond to the best of my ability.

OLD BRUCE SAID: I would expect that left handed pages remain left handed regardless of the number of pages I added. I view the current behavior as undesirable.

THOMASO SAID: I agree, a shift of content on not shifted master margins should not happen. I wonder if this issue is a consequence of a way master pages were set and/or assigned.

I, too, agree. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don’t recall ever having to deal with the issue using InDesign. I was with PageMaker since version 3 and with InDesign from the very beginning. In the last 2 years, I have written 2 books on so many of the fallacies concerning binoculars, so working with InDesign has not been flushed from my memory.

RC-R SAID: Why would you expect this not to happen? In 2 page spread setups, side margins are set to inner & outer values, so of course adding or deleting just one page (or any odd number of pages) would change the side margins of all the following pages.

I am using 2-page spreads. I just don’t recall this ever being an issue. I have also been trying to get an answer from Serif. But while their responses have been pleasant and plentiful, I have not received an answer to my question. With the sophistication of AP, I know my question has an easy answer ... SOMEWHERE. As it stands, I may have to get the book to press and learn the answer at my leisure, meaning I may have to handle the problem manually. OLD BRUCE is not the only “old” fish in this pond—guilty—and I need the revenue.

Thank you all,

Bill

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I believe that this is what WJC is talking about. It is definitely what I find so maddening.


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EXACTLY!!! You may think you have it bad just because you're old. Count your blessings; you could be an old NAVY CHIEF—guilty.

 

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2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

if I add 1 page somewhere how can the left-handed page that follows it possibly remain left-handed?

2 hours ago, R C-R said:

how can any page following the insertion of an odd number of pages not change from left to right or right to left? 

As Old Bruce's video illustrates the issue seems to be that margins & content are treated in a different way if ONE page gets added. Of cause the content of a formerly left page will then appear on a right page – but the moved content should appear on the correct master and according to the margins of that master. And naturally no master should move from one side to the other.

 


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I wouldn't expect MASTER PAGES to change. However, AP is a very sophisticated program. Thus, it is only logical—to me—that when pages are inserted or deleted, MARGINS throughout the document, in this case a book, will shift accordingly, logically.

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3 hours ago, thomaso said:

As Old Bruce's video illustrates the issue seems to be that margins & content are treated in a different way if ONE page gets added. Of cause the content of a formerly left page will then appear on a right page – but the moved content should appear on the correct master and according to the margins of that master. And naturally no master should move from one side to the other.

I do not understand why this is surprising. As the video shows, after inserting one page you cannot possibly have two left facing pages in a two page spread, regardless of how you label its contents.

As simply as I can put it, the affected left facing pages become right facing ones, so since left & right facing page margins are defined in terms of inner & outer distances from page edges (not left & right distances as they are for single page layouts), when a left facing page becomes a right facing one, its inner & outer edges are the opposite of what they were, relative to the spread.

So for example, if you are setting default page margins in 2 page spread layouts via Master pages, create a single page one for left page margins & another for right page ones. Then you can apply margins for even numbered pages using the left margin master & visa versa for the odd numbered ones.

1977592989_Evenpages.jpg.18f59db9bdc19cebd9039096cbdf9cec.jpg 933574542_Oddpages.jpg.5ead4a303163af62f5ab429544fd0025.jpg

Obviously, this also depends on if the document starts with left or right facing pages & if the document is set up to use vertical or horizontal spreads. (Examples of spread layouts are shown in the About pages and spreads help page.)


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190927

Hi R C-R,

Blowing out your neighbor’s candle does not make your own shine brighter.

With comments like, “I do not understand why this is surprising,” and “Why would you expect this not to happen?” [The first line of the letter to Serif, below, explains WHY.] I must assume you get some sort of pleasure from blowing out your neighbor’s candle and newbies make for a target-rich environment. But being a crusty old Navy Chief and a Texan to boot, I will answer fairly but firmly.

Because in years of using page layout programs, I don’t recall ever having to deal with this; as Old Bruce has pointed out, “it’s maddening.” Further, with 45 years in precision optics, an international reputation in same, having taught the PhDs from SPIE and the UAs College of Optical Sciences, having published four books on optics, and being the only Chief Opticalman minted in the year I made it, I am called on frequently to be a mentor. Like you, I deal with people who shouldn’t be allowed to drive. Through it all, I try to gather as much information as possible that I not go off halfcocked. Hurting is not helping.

You say, “As the video shows ...”  WHAT VIDEO? I have viewed all I hoped would help; they haven’t. As I plainly stated, I am new to the program. And I have never seen the two screenshots you posted. While needing some hand-holding may be frustrating to some, I am not clairvoyant, and don’t learn by osmosis.

I see you have had the program since water was in the experimental stages. I started asking about AP as early as you. However, they kept dragging anchor about getting it to market and I have produced two books and several articles since then. This is my first book with AP.

Following is a letter sent to a Serif employee this morning:  

Hi Callum,

You told me:

“You should be able to just right click a page in the Pages tab and delete it without affecting your margins.”

 

1. Attachment #1 shows my TWO PAGE “contents” spread.

2. Attachment #2 shows I have gone there, as you requested and selected the 3rd option “DELETE,” as you requested.

3. Attachment #3 clearly shows that the page was deleted and my margins WERE ALTERED.

4. Attachment #4 shows—by viewing pages 20 and 21—that the margins WERE ALTERED throughout the book.

5. Attachment #5 shows one forum reply to my problem which indicates “Old Bruce” has experienced the same thing and describes it as “maddening.”

 

Every morning I wake up to find you have tried to help me. And I have tried to show—as above—that I am following your instructions to the letter. With two BAs, an AA, and an AAS under my belt, I think I have been communicating the problem effectively. I also believe someone at Serif recognizes the problem and knows how to fix it. If you will ask that person for help, I think we can get this 5-day old problem behind us.

I need to be told—in NO uncertain terms—EXACTLY the sequence to follow. Being so new to the program, I need that. Some things you mention have several ways to get there, but not all do what you expect.

I assure you; I am NOT trying to be difficult. But what I see as a simple problem for a Serif employee who is familiar with the program is at the point of costing me money and has gone on long enough—for BOTH of us.

Or

Speaking the king’s AMERICAN English, tell me that while AP is a sophisticated program, there is NO WAY to solve the problem.

If I can’t have a valid answer by noon tomorrow, I will lick my wounds, waste more time by MANUALLY ADJUSTING MY PAGES, and pray to have no more problems until I can get this PDF to my printer.

 

Cheers, I wish not to offend anyone but I thought leveling the playing field a bit, appropriate.

Bill

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@WJC, I am in no way trying to "blow out" anyone''s candle. I honestly do not understand why, when two page spread margins are defined in terms of inner & outer values (which is evident in spread setup windows), it comes as a surprise that left & right pages always use those values by default. I think the video @Old Bruce posted shows the result of this -- that was the video I was referring to.

The two screenshots I posted relate to this, & offer a solution for applying left & right page margins selectively to all even or odd numbered pages, based on two single page Master pages, one each for the margins for left & right facing pages. Once those masters are set up, right-clicking on any page in the Pages panel brings up a menu, one item of which opens the Apply Master window shown in my screenshots. This avoids the need to go through the document manually page by page, which as I understand it is what you wanted help with.

As for your "since water was in the experimental stages" remark, I bought Affinity Publisher just after it was released on June 4 of this year, & as senile as I might be at my age, I am fairly sure water has been around much longer than that! xD

I am still very much a newbie to advanced DTP apps, so I spend a lot of time reading the built-in help pages, watching the video tutorials, & browsing through this forum for hints & tips for help with things I don't understand. I also experiment a lot, guided by what I can glean from those sources & others, because without that hands-on experimentation I find it hard to retain as much as I would like. :(

I am not yet familiar enough with this app to feel confident about posting detailed, step-by-step instructions or 'how to' videos of my own -- it took me over an hour just to set up & test the two Master page thing & make the screenshots I posted. In my reply I only briefly mentioned the other factors this might involve like starting page or new document layout. I do not currently have the time to spare to do more than that. Maybe in a week or two I might have enough experience with the app to do that, but I still have a lot to learn so no promises.


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R C-R

If you are senile, I will see that and raise you a 68-year old—stroke victim. And I have been around since water was in the experimental stages; the patent on dirt had just been granted, and Serif employee, Callum, admitted there was a way to do what I wanted.

My concern was always that I don’t recall ever having the issue with InDesign and I have published 2 books in the last 3 years. As for as how:

AP is plenty sophisticated and, as I see it, the program COULD shift the margins to fit the new layout. Callum has admitted it’s possible but stopped short of telling me how. As seen in my previous post his instructions—followed to the letter—did not do as he said.   

But I am through wasting time trying to get straight answers. Much less time will be wasted in formatting the whole thing manually. Thus, I will give him until noon Monday to come up with the real answer. Afternoon, I will format manually. I will have much more time to learn the program once I get this book to press. Besides, I’m sure there will be other things I’m going to need help with.

So far, I am very pleased with what I have found in AP. Some things make no sense to a PageMaker / InDesign user. But I tell I’m going to like what I’ve found.

 

If we disagree, let’s do as Dr. Stephen Covey suggests and “agree to disagree agreeably.”

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@WJC, I explained how to avoid manually reformatting pages in Affinity Publisher. If you are now talking about Affinity Photo (AP) I am confused.


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14 hours ago, R C-R said:

I do not understand why this is surprising. As the video shows, after inserting one page you cannot possibly have two left facing pages in a two page spread, regardless of how you label its contents.

That is exactly what confuses. (and makes me surprised about you not being surprised ;))

Yes, there should not be 2 Left Pages within 1 spread. So it surprises me, that the software on one hand is aware of this and keeps margins on their correct position – but is not able to handle master page content accordingly in that same correct way. In the video below it is obvious that margins and content are treated differently – though both are properties of the master of the moved left document page (no object was detached or changed).

Surprise: the masters margins become corrected on a page move – whereas their masters content does not:

 

8 hours ago, R C-R said:

now talking about Affinity Photo (AP) I am confused.

No surprise. Many users like to shorten AfPublisher accordingly to AD ("A" + "D") simply as "A" + "P" – not knowing that this abbr. also is claimed for the Photo app, which is sort of discrimination of publisher. The fact the the forums software nowadays adds tool-tips to these characters AD and AP makes it even worse, especially if the author does not see it when typing. – Who has more right for the shorter abbr.: AP or AfP ...? :ph34r:  I would not be surprised if this subject would get a thread, heating the peoples minds, similar to the AF (affinity;) app icon or any win/mac discussion ;)


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