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On 12/3/2021 at 8:14 PM, prophet said:
On 12/3/2021 at 8:10 PM, thomaso said:

What is the benefit to have a master layer in the Layer panel of each single page if that just contains the page number or any other "permanent" object like a background for instance?

As another visual indicator that the page has a particular Master Applied. And where that Master content falls in the heirarchy.

There will be already another visual indicator: if you go the Master Page there all items will appear in the Layer panel.

If a master object falls in the hierarchy locally on a document page, then you can…
A.) detach the object locally to make it appear in the Layer panel + move it in the hierarchy for this page only, or
B.) change this object's hierarchical position globally by moving its layer on its Master Page.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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@fde101,

That list with the options has given me too much to think about. I shall though. Some very good ideas there.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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  • 2 weeks later...

A week and a half and there still isn't any explanation of what the intriguing term "a new Linked Spread" would be. This was from @TonyB. Could we have an explanation or description of what it will do.

One thing I have been thinking of is how the actual file format of Publisher's documents are openable in Designer and Photo. So global layers would exist in Photo and Designer. There is after all only the one actual format, just different file extensions. I don't have a problem with that.

With that realization comes a couple of questions about how adjustment layers would work, specifically in Designer. For example how would a B&W adjustment layer be need to be placed on only one Artboard in a Designer document with several Artboards? Would there be the need to clip it to that Artboard? Or would I need to turn it on for only that one Artboard in the layers panel.

How would the Layers panel in Designer look? In Publisher things are straightforward in that you have one page (Master or Actual) and only see the items for that spread/page. Here is a mockup of how three Global Layers might appear in Designer with multiple Artboards.

1016754556_ScreenShot2021-12-14at11_15_41AM.thumb.png.72d600532a3fd52d46af983c2294588b.png


Or would it look like this? Which is unmanageable.

631341121_ScreenShot2021-12-14at11_13_33AM.thumb.png.a1578ee9160e96f510d7edd45f560f85.png

I have to say that I am coming around to the idea of Affinity implementing and me actually using Global Layers. Even though I must say that I haven't truly missed out by not having them. One thing that popped into my head was that with Global layers I could make a Guides Global Layer, filled with guides on angles other than ninety or zero degrees, and have shapes too.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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8 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

One thing I have been thinking of is how the actual file format of Publisher's documents are openable in Designer and Photo. So global layers would exist in Photo and Designer.

As I mentioned earlier…

On 12/3/2021 at 2:05 PM, prophet said:

As I mentioned earlier, I think Publisher's handling of Designer artboards could be a workable solution. On opening a Pub doc in the other apps, you could get a warning that "this document uses Global Layers" with the choice to "convert to local layers, you can't go back".

And practically, since Pub has the Personas to do most of Designer and Photo tasks, it could be a rare occasion to even open the doc in one of the other apps.

@Old Bruce Would that be a workable solution?

In my work, I generally don't avail myself of Artboards in Designer. The only practical advantage I see in them is multiple "pages" with different sizes, but I can do that in Publisher anyway. That said, I think your first example would have be the way to go rather than the second option.

16 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

One thing that popped into my head was that with Global layers I could make a Guides Global Layer, filled with guides on angles other than ninety or zero degrees, and have shapes too.

An excellent use case for Global Layers.

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@prophet, I think we should be given the choice of showing Global Layers or not when opening and saving. But the Global Layers would still be there. The file format for all three applications is exactly the same, just a different extension.

Perhaps we would need to have a per Application preference Show / Hide Global layers for New Docs and a separate one for When Opening Docs

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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Same file format, yes, but Artboards can't exist in Publisher. So there currently exists a feature/construct/mechanism in one app that doesn't have an equivalent in another and must be converted. I'm suggesting Global Layers could be a similar construct that is limited to Publisher, but would "degrade gracefully" in the other apps.

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1 minute ago, prophet said:

I'm suggesting Global Layers could be a similar construct that is limited to Publisher, but would "degrade gracefully" in the other apps.

So the ordinary layers in my first screenshot would be on the Artboards and the Global Layers would be hidden/invisible. Is that what you think could happen or work? I could live with that I guess.

This is how that Designer Document looks in Publisher after converting Artboards to Spreads. In the layers panel I see only the one page at a time.

1401048019_ScreenShot2021-12-14at1_06_52PM.png.91186eb9982fa3fc1ee5a063bbce5a48.png

And then if I save that as a *.afpub file I can open it in Designer and see one page at a time.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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6 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

And then if I save that as a *.afpub file I can open it in Designer and see one page at a time.

Right. Your artboards have been irreversibly converted to pages. I'm suggesting that if Global Layers across all 3 apps is unfeasible, they could be converted to "regular" layers when opened by Designer or Photo and that operation would likewise be irreversible. Proper warning would be given upon conversion of course.

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2 minutes ago, Hens said:

You sure?

Well, yes, they can exist. But then we are unable to use Pages or Master Pages without converting.

Well…I guess my point could be moot. If Artboards can exist in Publisher and maintain their Layer structure, as they seem to do already, then why not have Global Layers move across Publisher and Designer? It would be essentially the same construct.

Fair enough. I rescind my previous arguments. Global Layers for all!

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/3/2021 at 9:05 AM, thomaso said:

• What is a "Linked Spread", respectively how does it differ from a "Master Page"?
• Doesn't every applied master result in at least 1 "Linked Spread"?

I could be off here, but I am interpreting a linked spread to be what a master page is now - renaming the current master pages - which appear as a single local (non-global) layer on each page they are applied to.  This would preserve compatibility for existing documents as there is no clear way to represent the existing master pages amongst the global layers of a page once they are added.

Then a new master page would be introduced which would have the same global layers as the normal pages of the document, which would not need to appear as a layer itself in the document since its content would simply be rendered at the bottom of each individual global layer on each page the master is applied to.

 

If this assumption is correct:

On 12/3/2021 at 7:55 AM, TonyB said:
  • What happens to existing documents

They open essentially as-is, with no visible global layers, and with current master pages renamed as linked spreads.

 

  • Should existing Master Pages be converted into a new Linked Spread and would this feature be useful for other things

Yes, maybe.

 

  • Should Master Page items be visible in the Layer panel for the current spread

Suggest yes when editing the items is enabled, no when it is disabled, but the names of the layers from the master page(s) should appear in some different color or some similar mechanism should be provided to distinguish at a glance from the layers of the spread itself.

 

  • Should we replace multiple master pages per spread with Master Pages that can inherit from other Master Pages

I see no reason why these would need to be mutually exclusive, but I think that inheritance would be preferable to multiple masters if we need to choose.  For linked spreads (assuming I am correct that this is a renaming of the current master pages) the current behavior should be maintained for compatibility.

 

  • Should Global Layers be the default for Publisher 

Suggest adding a checkbox to the new document window, much as there is one for creating an artboard when a Designer document is being created.

 

On 12/3/2021 at 1:48 PM, Old Bruce said:

I don't like that, I may want to have a layer on a page that is not part of any global layer.

What would be the benefit, and how would they be layered around the global layers that did exist?

The global layers are always at the top of and are the only thing at the top of the hierarchy.  Everything else inside them.  They effectively create the overall layering structure of the entire document, so for something to exist on the page which is not in a global layer implies that it is not a visible entity.

If you were to have non-global layers outside of the global layers, how would they be layered on the page amongst the global layers?  Each would in effect need to be in an implied global layer of its own - in which case it may as well not be implied but be actual...

 

On 12/3/2021 at 1:48 PM, Old Bruce said:

Also wouldn't there would be an implied default single Global Layer?

Yes, in effect the product currently behaves as if there is one global layer that everything is inside of, that layer is invisible, and there is no way to make it visible or to add another.

 

On 12/3/2021 at 1:48 PM, Old Bruce said:

That one may not need to be shown, but as soon as I add one Global Layer then both should be shown

I would think the preferable behavior would be that when the first global layer is created by the user, the existing hidden one becomes visible instead, that being the newly "created" global layer, with the existing content of each spread or master page contained within it.  Then the second global layer that is created is created as empty.

That's just me though...

 

On 12/3/2021 at 12:23 PM, thomaso said:

_ In any case I would appreciate for creation of Global Layers
A.) auto-highlighted its default layer name for immediate custom naming as soon the new layer occurs in the panel.
B.) automatic layer colorisation: No GL without color + accordingly colored object bounding boxes.

While not really essential, these would certainly be very nice to have, as would layer FX, compositing mode and opacity for each global layer (much like the existing per-spread layers) to add something of a special touch.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi you all, with the respect of all of your opinions, and without the intent to bother you :) I add my opinion too!

If this system actually work for all of you, I am happy with that. But maybe a lot of people are a little bit while working struggling as I do. Then, here it is my case:

I often work with creative documents, with several pages (like 100) and two languages. I always check, revision, edit my texts and objects, until exhaustion (it's part of the creative process)... they are never positioned by me once and forever - without modifications - for the whole process. But these files also last for years in some cases, then it is not "ok creative part is done", or "ok let's export and now I finished". They are cyclical. Update, export, update,  change, export, update, export... etc.

This means that:

1-- If I use Master layers -> I will lose a lot of time in the creative process. And it is a lot, I can ensure it.

2-- If I don't use Master Layers -> I will lose a lot of time on switching on-off page by page the language I don't need, everytime I have to update and export my files. I do it continuously

Then, I would appreciate to ADD (not replacing) the current feature with a Global Layer behavior!

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Hey, I'm just looking into this conversation, and I haven't quite read through all 7 pages, so this question might have been addressed before, but there is something I don't understand.

'Global layers' seem to suggest a set of overarching layers that are higher in the hierarchy than regular layers. As I understand, this would not match with the use of layers in the other apps which is not nested.

On the other hand a 'linked layer' (as exists in Photo) makes more sense to me. It would exist at the same level of regular layers but its behaviour would be linked across pages. It could be implemented starting from the existing 'linked layer' from Photo and adapt its behaviour to workflows typically used in lay-outing (eg. auto-create all linked layers in all new pages, of course without any objects).

This seems simpler, so am I missing something?

PS: For those who think long, multi-language documents don't exist in a single layout: I am now working on an atlas of 400-500 pages (in InDesign). All legends, captions and introductory texts are indeed in two languages. This use case is definitely not hypothetical in Belgium.

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Hi Ecifircas, if you are working with Indesign, you are working with Global Layers. If you work with Affinity Publisher, each page has its own layers. Only with masters layers you can have the same layers similar to Indesign. The difference is that to move-modify an object in a page you have to apply a permission.

If you try your work into Affinity Publisher I think the difference will be more clear

 

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1 hour ago, Ecifircas said:

'Global layers' seem to suggest a set of overarching layers that are higher in the hierarchy than regular layers. As I understand, this would not match with the use of layers in the other apps which is not nested.

There are various features already which don't exist in all of the 3 Affinity apps – nevertheless, Serif found their way to circumvent / solve such possible conflicts. Concerning Global Layers, you can already import an .idml file containing global layers, while Affinity has also for those a way to handle them without being able itself to the global layer properties of an .idml. – For further aspects you might read this thread, this possible, Affinity internal in-/compatibility got discussed before, especially since Nov 2021.

1 hour ago, Ecifircas said:

On the other hand a 'linked layer' (as exists in Photo) makes more sense to me. It would exist at the same level of regular layers but its behaviour would be linked across pages. It could be implemented starting from the existing 'linked layer' from Photo and adapt its behaviour to workflows typically used in lay-outing (eg. auto-create all linked layers in all new pages, of course without any objects).

"Linked layers" have a quite different functionality than Global Layers. They are much more similar to Master Page Layers and their linking behavior to objects. These links must be created individually for each object that is to be linked in this way.

Whereas Global Layers are no objects visible on a documents page (e.g. like Master layers) but general items of a common hierarchical structure and higher-level layer order throughout an entire multi-page document. Once created they exist on every page, independent of eventually objects. They don't have the goal to cause a link between specific objects, instead any object modification does neither touch Global Layers nor gets reflected by Global Layers. Only modification to Global Layers affects other Global Layers (incl. containing objects), e.g. changing a position within the global hierarchy. But therefore they don't need to get linked by the user, they are linked by their functionality by default.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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  • 3 months later...

I'm kinda blown away with the lack of understanding of global layers. Coming from Indesign, it's natural to add text and graphic in separate layers that I can turn on and off with a simple click.

  • Sometimes I just want to work with text, and can lock the graphic elements so I don't accidentally select them. This was a crucial tool for me in Indesign.
  • Sometimes I want to create a right to left layout.
  • Sometimes I want to create a printer friendly version.
  • Sometimes I just want to lock the column headline or page borders, or just hide them (which I can do today with master page layers).

I tried adding layers in the master pages, but I can't add page specific frames to that layer, so it's useless. If I can only toggle the frames on the actual master page, it's kinda useless. I tried using separate layers on each page, but it's just a hassle to set ut up on every single page, and it's not useful if I only got one graphic element per page.

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On 6/27/2022 at 1:49 AM, Rickard said:

I'm kinda blown away with the lack of understanding of global layers.

I suspect that many of those users are likely coming from the photo/illustration app world and leveraging the low cost of Publisher to get their feet wet in the DTP world, rather than coming from other DTP apps such as InDesign or QuarkXPress where the *only* layers they offer are what we are calling "global" layers here.

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  • 4 months later...

Big disappointment for me to see that this feature hasn't made it into 2.0, even though it's been in the talks for so long and reportedly Affinity was "working on it".

I rely extremely heavily on this and now my hopes to ever fully transition to Affinity Publisher have been shattered for the time being. I have a feeling that global layers aren't a feature that would be introduced in an intermediate update.

I opened a new "Global Layers" thread in the v2.0 discussions here.

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  • Staff
50 minutes ago, Thomas Geist said:

Big disappointment for me to see that this feature hasn't made it into 2.0, even though it's been in the talks for so long and reportedly Affinity was "working on it".

I rely extremely heavily on this and now my hopes to ever fully transition to Affinity Publisher have been shattered for the time being. I have a feeling that global layers aren't a feature that would be introduced in an intermediate update.

It's a big piece of work that requires major reworking of rendering and DOM structure. It will happen but will take time. It's high on our internal feature board.

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I'm also disappointed to see that there is still no "Global Layers" support in Publisher v2. I bought Publisher v1 when it first came out and it didn't even cross my mind that DTP software would not have a global layers concept. I was so excited when I heard about the v2 release as I thought global layers would have been included for sure this time.

I am a big fan of the Affinity Suite in general and I am very grateful to Serif for providing an excellent and cheaper alternative to Adobe. I switched to Affinity when my CS6 apps would no longer run on macOS when 32-bit support ended. I have some complex documents that have multiple layers that I need to be able to switch on and off across the whole document. Global layers is the one thing I'm missing and then Affinity would be perfect for all my needs. I'd even be prepared to pay double the price for just this feature!

Having read the posts on this thread, the Master Pages suggestions just won't work for me unfortunately.

So, if it is going to take a long time to implement global layers fully, would it be possible to add the following simple feature...

Right-click on a layer in the list on any page and select an option that says something like: "Hide Layers Globally By Name" and "Show Layers Globally By Name".

As the titles suggest, this feature would switch on/off all layers in the document that match the name of the one clicked on. This would be fine for my documents, which have imported ok into Publisher with all my layers intact, but I just need to be able to switch the layers on/off on every page with one action as they contain hundreds of pages.

If that feature could be quickly added it would really save the day for me as I just can't delay my projects much longer waiting for full global layer support, and I can't afford Adobe or Quark subscriptions.

Many thanks,
Stewart

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On 11/10/2022 at 5:02 AM, StewH said:

something like: "Hide Layers Globally By Name" and "Show Layers Globally By Name".

Interestingly (or ironically?) APhoto v.2 got a feature "Layer States" with options to hide/show layers by name, name snippets and layer colours and save certain combinations as states, easy to activate / deactivate and affecting all layers with 1 click, even a "smart" option is available ...

Unfortunately, this exists for APhoto and single pages only, not for an entire document with several pages.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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  • 1 month later...

A big thank you to Serif for adding the "Select Same Name" option when you right click on a layer in Publisher 2! This works perfectly for me as I can now right click on a layer on one page, choose "Select Same Name" which selects all the layers with the same name across all pages in my document, and I can then click the visibility toggle to hide/show all those layers at once. A great Christmas present, many thanks!

Wishing a Happy Christmas/Holidays to all! 

All the best,
Stewart

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53 minutes ago, StewH said:

adding the "Select Same Name" option when you right click on a layer in Publisher 2!

That was already in v1, although I don't remember since when.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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You're right loukash that the option is there in Publisher v1. I just reinstalled v1 to test it as I either didn't remember the option being there, or didn't think it worked. Sure enough, the option does not work the way I've described for v2 above in v1. It doesn't select the same layer across all pages by name when I tried it, whereas it does in v2. I did a search on the forum for "select same name" and I can see other posts suggesting that the function has changed its behaviour recently in Publisher, although I haven't read all the posts. I'm pleased with the change so I hope it stays!

Stewart 

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