magicdesign__ Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 I am finding that, when ever i make a change to a text box, the next text box i create includes those changes too - i would think it much more logical for each new text box to have 'default' settings - as i often have to customise text styles in different ways on the same page. Dennison and robskinn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim_L Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 +1 One of the parts driving me mad sometimes, that values are kept for the next object. A preference to switch this behaviour on/off would be nice. Making a simple text frame an asset is a workaround, but nothing more. sbe, OSunBoy, Dennison and 1 other 4 Quote ------ Windows 10 | i5-8500 CPU | Intel UHD 630 Graphics | 32 GB RAM | Latest Retail and Beta versions of complete Affinity range installed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryP Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Having to manually reset the formatting of a text frame (or any other layer) can sometimes be extra work that I don’t want to have to do. I too would prefer that an option was given to have text frames created with some uniform default formatting each time no matter what I was doing beforehand. A basic plain text frame is usually what I want. The current set-up is probably good for some people but it would be nice to have the option for people who don’t want it to work that way. P.S. I don’t think this is a bug, it’s just the way the software works. Dennison, sbe and OSunBoy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pruus Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 +1, would making a new document easier. Lutz Pietschker and Dennison 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Maybe via the "synchronize defaults" mechanism? The default settings for a text box would be the current behavior, but select one and synchronize the defaults and newly created text boxes from that point on use the ones you selected - then "revert defaults" would drop back to the current behavior? I don't have it in front of me at the moment to see if that is how it works now - assuming not based on the existence of this thread - but I think it would be nice for it to work that way. I think that would make sense logistically and offer the best of both worlds with minimal fuss... EDIT: actually, maybe it does work that way already: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/98513-default-text-box/ Kal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominik Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 15 hours ago, fde101 said: Maybe via the "synchronize defaults" mechanism? I can confirm that this is the way to do it. Set up a text frame the way you like it and optionally assign a paragraph style. Make sure the text frame is selected. Then select 'Edit > Defaults > Synchronise from selection'. From now on every text frame has these properties. Furthermore you can: have different styled text frames as assets. Pull them in and 'Synchronise from selection' to switch between different default text frame styles. 'Edit > Defaults > Save' to transfer default settings between documents (in the other document one has to select 'Edit > Defaults > Refert' to pick up the changes to default settings. reset everything to factory defaults if one got lost It is worth looking at. d. Move Along People and Kal 2 Quote Affinity Suite on Windows (V2) and iPad (V2). Beta testing when available. Windows 11 64-bit - Core i7 - 16GB - Intel HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M iPad pro 9.7" + Apple Pencil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryP Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 It’s not working that way for me. See the attached GIF where I would expect the final rectangle (bottom-right) to be drawn using the same formatting as the first (top-left) after synchronising the defaults, but it’s not. After I synchronise the defaults with the first rectangle, draw another and change its formatting, the next rectangle is still formatted the same as the last and not the defaults that I set. Maybe I’m not using it right but I would expect that the “default” formatting would be applied to all new objects (of the same type). The Help says: “When you create new objects, their appearance is initially determined by the default settings” but that doesn’t seem to be the case here. I have no problem with the same formatting being applied to new objects if I don’t set a default - ideal for drawing lots of hair, for instance - but if I do set a default formatting for a specific object type then I would expect that formatting to be applied to all new objects of that type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominik Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 25 minutes ago, GarryP said: See the attached GIF where I would expect the final rectangle (bottom-right) to be drawn using the same formatting as the first (top-left) after synchronising the defaults, but it’s not. After I synchronise the defaults with the first rectangle, draw another and change its formatting, the next rectangle is still formatted the same as the last and not the defaults that I set. It took me a moment to follow your example but now I understand. What happens if you switch tools between the creation of the fourth and fifth (bottom right) rectangle? (Note: I was experimenting with text frames in APub not with rectangles in AD but in effect it should work the same). d. Quote Affinity Suite on Windows (V2) and iPad (V2). Beta testing when available. Windows 11 64-bit - Core i7 - 16GB - Intel HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M iPad pro 9.7" + Apple Pencil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 On 9/25/2019 at 9:52 AM, magicdesign__ said: I am finding that, when ever i make a change to a text box, the next text box i create includes those changes too That the answers in this thread "I do not want my recent setting used for all" turned to answer "How can I keep my recent setting for all?" makes it even more confusing. To avoid a recent formatting being used for new objects you need to use the "Revert defaults" button BEFORE creating the new object, as Dan C mentions and shows in his answer to this post: Unfortunately, this also isn't the wanted behavior because it demands an additional click when creating a new object. Actually it does not matter whether I use the Revert button before or after I created the new object. The confusing part seems to be that there are 2 kinds of Defaults but only 1 UI for both: A. one default is saved with the app. – It gets applied to new objects ... • as long no change of formatting was done to a selected object • and/or when using the Revert button. B. the other default is permanently active as soon an object gets formatted. – It gets applied to new objects ... • until I use the Revert button –> default A. • until I switch to another .afpub Besides this general theory occasionally I still run in situations where B. is not working but A. gets applied. I could not recognize a rule for a really reliable behavior yet. Back to the initial OP: there is no way yet to prevent the auto-saved-default of a formatting change. Feature request: Option to de-activate the permanently sync (= disable default B.). One way could be a checkbox besides the Sync button, blue button if active, grayed-out if inactive: Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryP Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 dominik: I tried what you asked – selecting a different tool – and I get the same result. I also get the same result by de-selecting before drawing. It always seems to draw the new rectangle with the same formatting as the last one no matter what the default is. thomaso: I don’t believe the direction of the thread has changed. As far as I can tell, the general feeling is that the people who have commented have wanted the default formatting to be applied to new objects of the same type no matter how the last object of the same type was formatted. However, I agree that this area is confusing. There is a button for reverting the defaults back to the Saved Defaults (which are global), and there is a button for setting the Synchronised Defaults to whatever is selected but there’s no button for reverting the defaults back to the last Synchronised Defaults. All I want to do is to be able to tell the software: “See this rectangle (or whatever object type I have selected), whenever I draw another one of these I want it to be formatted the same way as this one, and I don’t care about the formatting changes I made to any other one before I create it.” I don’t think that’s too much to ask for. I could be using the software wrong but I would have thought this should be an easier thing for the user to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, GarryP said: All I want to do is to be able to tell the software: “See this rectangle (or whatever object type I have selected), whenever I draw another one of these I want it to be formatted the same way as this one, and I don’t care about the formatting changes I made to any other one before I create it.” I don’t think that’s too much to ask for. Yes, that is exactly what I would expect from an additional checkbox as described in my recent post above. The direction of the thread has changed when it started to explain how to sync and apply defaults – instead of ignoring their hidden synced state, as initially requested. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryP Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I have a feeling that the software has been designed to work really well under certain conditions but some other conditions have not been fully addressed yet (or documented in an easy-to-understand way), and that’s where the confusion could be coming from. A lot of people might find that it works fantastically smoothly for how they like to do things – illustrators etc. – but, for some of us, there’s more work needed just to do some basic things. I would guess that some UI changes are needed to allow more people to work smoothly but I couldn’t say what they should be as I’m probably not in the key demographic the developers have made the software for. Software won’t always work the best way for everyone and some people may find that they have to do things differently to what they might expect. Sometimes the tool is not quite right for the person, sometimes the person is not quite right for the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicdesign__ Posted September 26, 2019 Author Share Posted September 26, 2019 indeed. another example of this is something that pageplus had which was 'clear text formatting' which, when a text box was selected and you clicked it, instantly returned all the text to default setting again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 15 minutes ago, magicdesign__ said: indeed. another example of this is something that pageplus had which was 'clear text formatting' which, when a text box was selected and you clicked it, instantly returned all the text to default setting again On Publisher, that is the "Reset Formatting" button on the Text Styles panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 minute ago, fde101 said: On Publisher, that is the "Reset Formatting" button on the Text Styles panel. That's what I was going to respond, too. Until I tried it, and found that it doesn't seem to do what I expected. In fact, I could see no effect from clicking "Reset Formatting", which seems odd. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicdesign__ Posted September 26, 2019 Author Share Posted September 26, 2019 reset formatting doesn't reset anything for me either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryP Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 If this is the thing I think it is it’s something I brought up in beta testing and, as far as I know, hasn’t been ‘fixed’ or explained in a way I can understand. I think it says Reset but it actually resets back to the styles which have been applied and not back to the ‘base’ formatting which I would expect, or something like that. (I don’t know where my original bug report is.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Reset Formatting clears any changes you made that are not part of the style. In effect, the style is the base formatting. If you want to eliminate the formatting from the style, just pick a different style. There are also "[No Style]" entries, but while this makes sense for character styles, I would argue that the "[No Style]" entry for paragraph styles is misleading at best, as it is technically a style itself. Amdival and GarryP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryP Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 This thread has gone a little ‘off topic’ but I think I asked for that button to be renamed to “Remove local formatting” or something like that, which sounds better to me. Picking a new style didn’t (as far as I remember, when I was testing, but that was a long time ago) always remove all of the formatting. I would have to dig out my original bug post to find out what the original problem was. Plus, I agree that “[No Style]”, as a name for a paragraph style, doesn’t really make sense as it, as you say, has to be a ‘style’ of some sort in itself as it has formatting which can be seen in the box at the top of the panel. There’s got to be some formatting in there as we can see the text so why isn’t that a named style? (Off the top of my head I can’t remember what the difference is between “Base” and “[No Style]”.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 35 minutes ago, GarryP said: (Off the top of my head I can’t remember what the difference is between “Base” and “[No Style]”.) For one, you can make "Base" have any styling you want, because it is a named collection of attributes. For another, the other default styles inherit from it, so changing Base can update all your other styles. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrettm30 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) This thread is becoming very interesting to me in a couple of ways. First, I want to comment on this issue that Walt brings up: 4 hours ago, walt.farrell said: That’s what I was going to respond, too. Until I tried it, and found that it doesn’t seem to do what I expected. In fact, I could see no effect from clicking “Reset Formatting”, which seems odd. That “Reset Formatting” button is supposed to leave the paragraph and character styles that have been applied to the selected text and clear out any formatting overrides. For example, if the formatting description right next to the button currently says “Heading + Italic: On” (where Heading is a paragraph style), clicking that button will revert the text so that it only “Heading” remains. However, it does not work correctly, in that it only considers the current formatting of the very first character in a selection. If the first character in a selection has no override, but there is one or more overrides somewhere else in the same selection, the Reset Formatting button is grayed out. I consider this to be a bug. I can work around this “bug” but using the Reapply Text Styles or Reapply Base Styles from the Text menu. ------------------------- Edit: After further discussion and testing, I think my explanation below is flawed. For people newly reading through this thread, please be aware that there is some false information, which I leave only for the sake of not submitting the thread to the negative effects of time travel conflicts. Now back to the main thrust of this thread, which is the matter of the ever-changing defaults. I am really glad for this thread, because previously I didn’t really understand the synchronize defaults thing. I went back and read the manual on it, and I have also followed the explanations in this thread (thank you @thomaso and @dominik). Now I think of it this way—which is basically what thomaso said except put in a different way in my own words. Publisher (or rather all Affinity) constantly maintains a kind of evolving default that tracks every change you make. Unlike what the word “default” might imply, there is no constant standard about it, but rather an ever-changing set of properties that serve as a starting point for the next created object. Whenever you create a new object, the settings you last chose for the previous object of a similar kind are applied. When you click “Synhcronize Default,” you are basically saving a snapshot of either the current state of those evolving starting-point properties or else, when you have an object selected, the properties of that selected object. Clicking “Synchronize Default” does not stop the evolving nature of these starting-point properties, but just saves a snapshot. Next time you click “Revert Defaults,” it resets the properties to that snapshot. For me, it is enough for now to understand what is happening, so that I can take some time to get the hang of it and evaluate whether this constantly evolving “default” works for me. As others have suggested, some kind of option to turn off the changing default would probably be desired by many. Edited September 26, 2019 by garrettm30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 It's also important to understand that both Synchronize and Revert operate in two modes. As I understand them: If an object is selected, the effect is local to that object (Revert) or kind of object (Synchronize). If no object is selected, the effect is global to all object style components in the document. But you're right, Garrett, that there are interactions with continued changes that one makes. And those interactions can confuse things. They do not actually affect what the "default" is, as far as I can tell. But some tools remember changes, and others don't (or remember them unreliably). For example, I remain puzzled by a sequence that I constantly struggle with: Draw a rounded rectangle. Set its fill to none, and its stroke to .8pt red solid line. Draw a second rounded rectangle. At the start its fill is none, and its stroke still shows as .8pt. But as I stop drawing and release the mouse button, but the type of stroke resets to None. One day I will probably look to see if that has already been reported as a bug. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: It's also important to understand that both Synchronize and Revert operate in two modes. As I understand them: If an object is selected, the effect is local to that object (Revert) or kind of object (Synchronize). If no object is selected, the effect is global to all object style components in the document. That way of description sounds weird. There aren't "two modes" of the buttons at all: The Revert button always does the same: reset to the saved default. So it reacts in one kind (or mode) only, regardless of selected or not-selected objects. As long "Revert" isn't pressed the current/recent style gets used. The Sync button can't be pressed with no object selected.The Sync function is auto-active and saves a temporary default (besides the saved default of "Revert").Pressing the Sync button makes no difference at work, its use is only for additional "Save" as app default. (> Revert) Instead "two modes" for the buttons I see two types of defaults: A. the "saved" default style (<> for Revert) B: the recently used style as temporary but automatic default. The default "B." has no UI yet. Therefore I requested the additional checkbox in my post above. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominik Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 4 hours ago, GarryP said: dominik: I tried what you asked – selecting a different tool – and I get the same result. I also get the same result by de-selecting before drawing. It always seems to draw the new rectangle with the same formatting as the last one no matter what the default is. I'm answering, after I read the entire thread up to now. I now understand that switching tools does not change anything as to the explanation of @garrettm30. It looks like defaults can be helpful and sometimes confusing according to the particular situation they are used in. To me they worked once I used them, even though only occasionally. d. Quote Affinity Suite on Windows (V2) and iPad (V2). Beta testing when available. Windows 11 64-bit - Core i7 - 16GB - Intel HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M iPad pro 9.7" + Apple Pencil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrettm30 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 hours ago, thomaso said: The Sync button can't be pressed with no object selected. I missed this point in my explanation above. In fact, as I play with it some more, I am now thoroughly confused, but I think my "snapshot" analogy is not correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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