Jump to content
RKTodd

Using Photoshop Plugins

Recommended Posts

Thank you! That was one arrangement I had not tried. Adjust, Detail, Simplify and Impressions all launch and seem to work! Clarity, DeJpeg 4 will not launch. ReMask 4 gets a message to "Unlock Transparency". No idea how to do that.

 

This is using the current beta.

 

Thanks again Mike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you! That was one arrangement I had not tried. Adjust, Detail, Simplify and Impressions all launch and seem to work! Clarity, DeJpeg 4 will not launch. ReMask 4 gets a message to "Unlock Transparency". No idea how to do that.

 

This is using the current beta.

 

Thanks again Mike.

If you look carefully at the ReMask message you will see it actually says "unclock", not "unlock".

 

I had a conversation with the AP people and they told me that the message is from Topaz, not from AP, so it is an error message. I am guessing that Topaz believes that the layer is locked and wants it to be unlocked. However unlocking the layer has no affect so I assume there is an interface issue in AP. I reported the spelling "unclock" to Topaz but never heard back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right it does say "unclock". As a correction I thought I had loaded the plugins to the beta but I had opened the App Store version by mistake. I'll see what results I get loading them to the beta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loaded the above listed Topaz plugins in to the beta version...Adjust works. Selecting Clarity crashed the beta. Reopen worked and Clarity seems to work. DeJpeg 4, Detail 3, Simplify seem to work. Impressions crashes when opened from inside Affinity Photo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can confirm what @jmac says:  set up as described by Mike and Adjust and Detail work perfectly.  I'm not really interested in any of the others but tempted to try as it seems odd that some work but others do not.


Retina iMac (4K display, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM) OS X 10.11.6  Capture One 10.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can confirm what @jmac says:  set up as described by Mike and Adjust and Detail work perfectly.  I'm not really interested in any of the others but tempted to try as it seems odd that some work but others do not.

I am interested in your experiences. As I have posted before Adjust and Detail work for me. Clarity works once, but then causes a crash when any plugin is subsequently called. ReMask will not launch. DeNoise works. photoFXlab works and will run all of my plugins without a problem, but is a pain to use and has not been updated in about 3 years.

 

Your mileage may vary but, if so, I would like to know about it. Perhaps there is something I should be doing but am not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike

 

I can now confirm that what you describe with Clarity happens with me in AP.  However, if I run it as a plug-in in Aperture there are no problems.  Likewise the "Clarity" preset in Adjust does not produce a crash.

 

Bill


Retina iMac (4K display, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM) OS X 10.11.6  Capture One 10.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike

 

I can now confirm that what you describe with Clarity happens with me in AP.  However, if I run it as a plug-in in Aperture there are no problems.  Likewise the "Clarity" preset in Adjust does not produce a crash.

 

Bill

Bill,

 

All of the Topaz stuff comes in two flavors - app and plugin. I know they are all referred to as plugins but if you look in  /Library/Application Support/Topaz Labs/Adjust 5 you will see the app version and if you look in the Adjust5 folder under that path you will see the plugin version. This seems to be true for all Topaz plugins (and for photoFXlab as well). When I first saw this I assumed that there was an app version (meaning an actual stand-alone version) and a plugin version, but I have never been able to get the app version to run properly. When I try to run it as an app it crashes. When I try to set it up as an external editor for some other application and then run it, it crashes. For example setting it as the external editor for Elements and then calling it results in a crash.

 

I have been trying to figure out what is actually happening here. Perhaps the plugin version calls the app version. Perhaps some applications require the app version and some the plugin version. I just don't know, but that means that understanding what is actually happening here may be more complex than I first assumed.

 

One interesting side note is that photoFXlab is different. That is an actual app for that and it can be called as a stand-alone app. Further, when setup as the external editor for some pixel editor like Elements (or photoLine) it works properly and is not as "ugly" as the plugin version. For me that means that the application UI is easier to use and that it fits onto the screen properly. The plugin version present an app that is too large for the screen and can not be shrunk to fit the screen at any resolution < 1920 x 1080 and in 16x9 format. It seems very odd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After doing some checking I realized that I had installed the stand alone version of Topaz Impressions. I was able to locate the plugin for Impressions and add that to the search window in Affinity Photo beta and Impressions launched and seems to work with no problem. As Mike was saying it's strange that some of them work and some of them don't. Then again I know nothing about the inner workings of these things so it may not be strange at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After doing some checking I realized that I had installed the stand alone version of Topaz Impressions. I was able to locate the plugin for Impressions and add that to the search window in Affinity Photo beta and Impressions launched and seems to work with no problem. As Mike was saying it's strange that some of them work and some of them don't. Then again I know nothing about the inner workings of these things so it may not be strange at all. 

I have never tried impressions. Perhaps it is worth looking at, especially if it actually works using AP.

 

As for some of the plugins working and some not, it does seem strange to me. I have never written any plugin interfaces so I am at a disadvantage here but Adobe does define the interface and make the information available in their SDK so it puzzles me as to why this is such a big deal. I do not mean to suggest it is easy, but it is doable since there are other pixel editors besides Photoshop and Elements that have this working properly. If photoLine can do it so can Serif and I assume it would be a simple process for them to hire a temporary contractor who was familiar with implementing plugin interfaces. I do not want to be telling the developers what to do. They have done a tremendous job with AP but it would be a help if they would take a moment and try to keep us up to speed on what, if anything, is going on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mike i understand your frustration but i think tonyB is absolut right, without some support from the pluggin developers side the problem is not really solvable.   a workaround  is only a half backed solution because i think AP will get more customers in the near future which don't have  photoshop on their machine so to be able to install the plugins the installer needs to know the host application and where to place the files ! so  lets start a change.org  petition or flood the plugin companies support with requests  !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

csp, I think it is a bit more complex than that (or perhaps it is simpler ...).  

 

Referring to tonyB's post #22, we know where to put the plugins and do not need anything Adobe.  It's not too well described in the AP help but Mike has set it out very clearly in his post #25; it is easy and works - just not for all the Topaz plugins.  I have 3 - Adjust, Detail and Clarity, and all work when called from Aperture, but only the first two are reliable when called from AP.  This suggests that Topaz make plugins that function correctly in OS X, but that AP has not managed to call them reliably (in the way that Aperture does).

 

I can't comment on the NIK ones as I have no need (or desire) for any of them and certainly would not fork out for the bundle, but can understand that AP users who do have them and are used to calling them would want them to work in AP too.


Retina iMac (4K display, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM) OS X 10.11.6  Capture One 10.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this whole discussion and winning leads to nothing, i see no reason not to trust the AP developers and as a customer of topaz  and other plugins i want a simple way to install and run  the plugins with AP and not a crooked workaround.  as a large and fast growing community we should have some weight.  no ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

csp:

 

Yes. It is frustrating and we have been promised this problem will be solved.

 

i understand your frustration but i think tonyB is absolut right, without some support from the pluggin developers side the problem is not really solvable.

 

I disagree. Clearly other pixel developers have solved this problem since my Topaz plugins all work in those other editors, so the problem must be solvable. If photoLine can launch my plugins there is no reason I can see that AP should not be able to. And, as I said, there are other solutions to this problem.

 

1) Surely there are contract engineers who know how to solve this problem. Serif could let a contract for one or two of them to work to complete the interface. The companies that I worked for before I returned did that sort of thing all the time to solve knotty problems.

 

2)  They could implement an external application call rather than just a plugin interface. That would allow users to call external apps and the plugins could be called through those. An external app interface would solve many of my problems.

 

3) They could tell us what is going on. They have been completely silent on this whole subject for some time now. If they are working on the problem and have some expected solution date, then they should tell us. If they believe that the present state of the plugin functionality is all that will be developed, then they should tell us so.

 

tonyB's comment was that the plugin manufacturers place files where Adobe products are and the implication is that they will not be anyplace accessible if there are no Adobe products on the system, but Topaz places its products in /Library/Application Support/Topaz Labs and they are there for all to see and use. Dxo places its plugins at /Library/Application Support/Dxo Labs. OnOne places its plugins at /Library/Application Support/OnOne Software. And so on. It is not like they are hidden.

 

I don't want this to sound like a rant. I love AP but I am just frustrated by the lack of communications about this and feel that I have no idea when, if ever, this problem will be addressed. If Serif were Adobe I would expect this kind of silence but the moderators and developers of AP were been so willing to share what was happening up to launch that I am puzzled by this lack of information.

 

As an owner of AP I want it to prosper and grow but I believe it will never become what it is capable of without the ability to run plugins in some fashion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

csp:

 

Yes. It is frustrating and we have been promised this problem will be solved.

 

i understand your frustration but i think tonyB is absolut right, without some support from the pluggin developers side the problem is not really solvable.

 

I disagree. Clearly other pixel developers have solved this problem since my Topaz plugins all work in those other editors, so the problem must be solvable. If photoLine can launch my plugins there is no reason I can see that AP should not be able to. And, as I said, there are other solutions to this problem.

 

1) Surely there are contract engineers who know how to solve this problem. Serif could let a contract for one or two of them to work to complete the interface. The companies that I worked for before I returned did that sort of thing all the time to solve knotty problems.

 

2)  They could implement an external application call rather than just a plugin interface. That would allow users to call external apps and the plugins could be called through those. An external app interface would solve many of my problems.

 

3) They could tell us what is going on. They have been completely silent on this whole subject for some time now. If they are working on the problem and have some expected solution date, then they should tell us. If they believe that the present state of the plugin functionality is all that will be developed, then they should tell us so.

 

tonyB's comment was that the plugin manufacturers place files where Adobe products are and the implication is that they will not be anyplace accessible if there are no Adobe products on the system, but Topaz places its products in /Library/Application Support/Topaz Labs and they are there for all to see and use. Dxo places its plugins at /Library/Application Support/Dxo Labs. OnOne places its plugins at /Library/Application Support/OnOne Software. And so on. It is not like they are hidden.

 

I don't want this to sound like a rant. I love AP but I am just frustrated by the lack of communications about this and feel that I have no idea when, if ever, this problem will be addressed. If Serif were Adobe I would expect this kind of silence but the moderators and developers of AP were been so willing to share what was happening up to launch that I am puzzled by this lack of information.

 

As an owner of AP I want it to prosper and grow but I believe it will never become what it is capable of without the ability to run plugins in some fashion.

 

We are still working on this but as we are a sandboxed AppStore App things get very complicated for us without help from plugin manufactures.

 

Just because Dxo and OnOne installers place files in standard places doesn't mean they don't also install setting/files that only apply to Photoshop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are still working on this but as we are a sandboxed AppStore App things get very complicated for us without help from plugin manufactures.

 

Just because Dxo and OnOne installers place files in standard places doesn't mean they don't also install setting/files that only apply to Photoshop.

Thank you for the reply. Part of my frustration was that we had heard nothing about what, if anything, was going on concerning plugin functionality.

 

While I have a general concern as I have many plugins my main concern has to do with my Topaz plugins and they reside in /Library/Application Support/Topaz Labs. To the best of my knowledge the NIK plugins also live in a well-defined location. I do not speak for anyone else but I assume that the majority of people who are using plugins are using either of these two groups and would be satisfied if both of them worked. 

 

If it turns out that implementation of these plugins is not possible, given the environment AP has to live in, I think most people would appreciate knowing that so we could try to plan how to work around the restriction. I know I would prefer to know what the current state is. I assume Serif will not get very much help, if any, from the Topaz people given their response to me when I asked about that.

 

Again, thank you for the reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could we please rename this thread to "Using third party plugins"?  

 

The idea that AP has to mimic all things PS is just wrong, and many of the plugins that have been identified as issues do NOT depend on having PS.  Specifically the Topaz ones that Mike keeps asking about (and that I am now a fan of having looked just to see what it was that he was so enthusiastic about) run perfectly well for me as Aperture plugins and on an Adobe-free environment.  Even more curious is the way that you can call some from AP and have them function perfectly well - but not others.  I'm not a software engineer so will not quibble with what TonyB said about sandboxing issues but it all does seem a bit odd.  

 

Add that plugins have vanished from the most recent roadmap ... 


Retina iMac (4K display, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM) OS X 10.11.6  Capture One 10.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a response i got from topaz asking for ap support:

 

At the moment, our plugins are not compatible with Affinity Photo Editor, as the application is sold in the App Store. The Apple App Store imposes restrictions on IPC Memory use, that our plugins violate, and are therefore unavailable on App Store applications. This is a restriction we may consider to find a workaround for, but at the moment we do not have plans to implement compatibility with Affinity Photo.

However, if Serif decides to release a direct installer from their site, rather than exclusively selling on the App Store, then our plugins will not experience any of the trouble that the App Store version has.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns, and I will be happy to assist!

Respectfully,

Joe Fedric
Customer Happiness Specialist
Topaz Labs

.....so  who moves first to make us happy ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work csp - thanks!  

 

One loose end - why do Topaz plugins work in Aperture?  Is Apple applying one rule for themselves and another one for 3rd party apps, or is the key in the Topaz Fusion Express 2 that is required to enable the plugins to work in Aperture?  If the former, I guess we are at the "find a brick wall and beat head against it until you no longer care" point; if the latter, perhaps you could follow up with your Happiness Specialist contact at Topaz Labs and ask?

 

Regards

 

Bill


Retina iMac (4K display, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM) OS X 10.11.6  Capture One 10.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work csp - thanks!  

 

One loose end - why do Topaz plugins work in Aperture?  Is Apple applying one rule for themselves and another one for 3rd party apps, or is the key in the Topaz Fusion Express 2 that is required to enable the plugins to work in Aperture?  If the former, I guess we are at the "find a brick wall and beat head against it until you no longer care" point; if the latter, perhaps you could follow up with your Happiness Specialist contact at Topaz Labs and ask?

 

Regards

 

Bill

good question !  but i would bet the first one is true....    or maybe affinity just needs a customer happiness specialist too to change things....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a response i got from topaz asking for ap support:

 

At the moment, our plugins are not compatible with Affinity Photo Editor, as the application is sold in the App Store. The Apple App Store imposes restrictions on IPC Memory use, that our plugins violate, and are therefore unavailable on App Store applications. This is a restriction we may consider to find a workaround for, but at the moment we do not have plans to implement compatibility with Affinity Photo.

However, if Serif decides to release a direct installer from their site, rather than exclusively selling on the App Store, then our plugins will not experience any of the trouble that the App Store version has.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns, and I will be happy to assist!

Respectfully,

Joe Fedric

Customer Happiness Specialist

Topaz Labs

.....so  who moves first to make us happy ?

That is a much more detailed response than I ever got from one of the plugin companies. Thank you for taking the time. At least it explains why some of the plugins are failing and others are not.

Perhaps it also explains why photoFXlab works and all of the plugins work through it as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work csp - thanks!  

 

One loose end - why do Topaz plugins work in Aperture?  Is Apple applying one rule for themselves and another one for 3rd party apps, or is the key in the Topaz Fusion Express 2 that is required to enable the plugins to work in Aperture?  If the former, I guess we are at the "find a brick wall and beat head against it until you no longer care" point; if the latter, perhaps you could follow up with your Happiness Specialist contact at Topaz Labs and ask?

 

Regards

 

Bill

Bill,

 

FusionExpress 2 is an app, not a plugin, and Aperture can run the Topaz plugins because they can launch an external app and it can launch the plugins from its environment. This is why I have been saying for months that if AP would provide an external app interface then we could run the plugins from it. Probably all of them, Topaz, NIK and others, as long as there was a free-standing app that launched the apps.

 

If you search your system you will find Topaz Fusion Express 2.app but no Topaz Fusion Express 2.plugin. The copies on my system are in /Library/Application Support/Topaz Labs/FusionExp2 and /Applications.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I guess this explains why the other MAS editors, Acorn and Pixelmator, don't run any plugins.

 

Based on this information I would guess that AP will never be able to run all of the Topaz plugins unless they implement an external app interface and I should be grateful that they do run my two favorites - Adjust and Detail. I will just call another external editor (probably photoLine) if I need to run the others.

 

Perhaps they will provide an external app interface. I just hope they don't decide that the plugin market is a no-win market and drop what does work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to thank the people in this thread for their excellent detective work. It's a shame, however, that this information needed to be pieced together the hard way, without much guidance from the AP staff. The problem with plug-ins has been labelled a "Hot Topic." One would think that the developers would pay attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×