List indentation not working correctly if text flows around a shape

[bjoernbg]

Pretty much what the title says. Getting the indentation right for lists (bullet list in my case) is more difficult than it should be, but that's fine. It breaks completely when the bullet list flows around a shape, though. Is there any workaround for this?

Have a look at the attached screenshot. It shows the same text frame twice. The version on the right doesn't flow around anything and so looks perfect. The one on the left is broken and there is nothing I can do to fix it, it seems.

Any help?

Thanks
Björn

[Pauls]

adjusting the left indent for the items that are incorrect may get you around it.

[walt.farrell]

A similar example works fine for me (on Windows), using the standard Bullet 1 paragraph style. And it was simple to set up (just use that paragraph style).

This leads me to wonder, Björn, how you set up your text since you say it was harder to set it up than it should be. And since it works with the standard bullet style (again, though, on Windows) possibly there's a basic flaw in how you set it up.

You might try comparing your definition with Bullet 1 to see if you can spot a difference. Or possibly we could see a .afpub file that demonstrates your problem and we can help figure it out.

[bjoernbg]

Thanks for getting back so quickly. My workaround was splitting the list into to text frames and readjusting the sizes by hand.

I have since had more issues with text flow around objects. It behaves very strange and unpredictable. I suspect it might have something to do with me using quite a few masks on groups and images that the text is supposed to flow around.

@walt.farrell I had a go with Bullet 1 paragraph style ("Aufzählung 1" in the German version) - the result is not better (but it was easier to setup indeed!) as you can see from the attached screenshot

I will try anonymizing my design file later and upload it here, so you can better see what I'm working with. For now I have to finish the layout to get it to print.

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, bjoernbg said:

I had a go with Bullet 1 paragraph style ("Aufzählung 1" in the German version) - the result is not better (but it was easier to setup indeed!) as you can see from the attached screenshot

Thanks for trying it. If you can get an anonymized file later I'd like to see it.

For reference, here's what I see with a similar setup using Bullet 1:

[bjoernbg]

12 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Thanks for trying it. If you can get an anonymized file later I'd like to see it.

For reference, here's what I see with a similar setup using Bullet 1:

Wow, that is exactly what I would expect. I'm restarting Publisher now to see if that helps. I'm getting more and more strange issues, so maybe something broke…

[bjoernbg]

15 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Thanks for trying it. If you can get an anonymized file later I'd like to see it.

For reference, here's what I see with a similar setup using Bullet 1:

Oops, sorry, I overlooked the problem. It seems that you got exactly the same problem I have. How do you get the lines to indent correctly next to the grey box? Those lines should be indented the same way as the ones with the bullets…

[walt.farrell]

3 minutes ago, bjoernbg said:

Oops, sorry, I overlooked the problem. It seems that you got exactly the same problem I have. How do you get the lines to indent correctly next to the grey box? Those lines should be indented the same way as the ones with the bullets…

Oops. You're right. I totally missed the problem with the indentation of the second lines.

I was focused on the difference in the first line (tabbing) between what I see and what you showed. I'll have to play with that, but it may require adjusting the left indent, as @Pauls suggested.

But I don't think any adjustment should be needed; it feels like there's a bug there.

[thomaso]

9 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

problem with the indentation of the second lines.

I was focused on the difference in the first line (tabbing) between what I see and what you showed. I'll have to play with that, but it may require adjusting the left indent, as @Pauls suggested.

The indent doesn't fix any of these two issues, it possibly just makes the first line jumping to a next tab-like position from a particular value (the large gap in the OP's screenshot), or lets the indent difference not become visible (as in Walt's screenshot).

Actually both indents, first line and following lines, don't work with wrapping text:

Although you are able to surround the issues by not using text wrap but indents only. But this is with all bugs: if you don't use its initiator then the issue won't occur

 

 

 

[thomaso]

@bjoernbg, would you mind to start a separate thread with your image rotation issue?
(Else it might get confusing here quickly)

[Pauls]

I believe Indesign has the same issue. You'll need to modify the settings for the altered lines. I guess we'd need relative positioning to overcome the problem which is more of a feature request

[bjoernbg]

8 hours ago, thomaso said:

@bjoernbg, would you mind to start a separate thread with your image rotation issue?
(Else it might get confusing here quickly)

@thomaso Sure did. Feel free to delete the post in this thread.

[garrettm30]

On 9/11/2019 at 3:11 AM, Pauls said:

I believe Indesign has the same issue.

I just now read this thread, and that was my same thought: that InDesign has this same problem. Therefore, one could say that this is not actually a bug, since the industry-standard app does the same thing.

However, I have always considered it a bug even in InDesign. I think that text wrapping should effectively change the margin position, so that indents are calculated from the effective margin (text wrap position) rather than the position of the actual text frame.

Whether this should be considered a feature request or a bug to address does not matter too much, but it would be nice for it to be addressed all the same.

And imagine this: if Publisher fixes it, then InDesign will be the buggy app in this instance. Then Adobe fans could complain in their forums that “Publisher gets it right, why can’t InDesign?”

[bjoernbg]

On 9/11/2019 at 10:11 AM, Pauls said:

I believe Indesign has the same issue. You'll need to modify the settings for the altered lines. I guess we'd need relative positioning to overcome the problem which is more of a feature request

So that would mean that a use case as shown in the screenshot below is just not possible without manually indenting every line? Seems ridiculuous to me, even if Adobe drops the ball as well.

On the other hand, the more complicated cases don't happen to often in reality. Would give me more confidence if stuff like that just worked, though.

[MikeW]

On 9/11/2019 at 1:11 AM, Pauls said:

I believe Indesign has the same issue. ...

Sure, ID doen't get everything right...

In this regards, QXP can/does, though.

[garrettm30]

@MikeW and @bjoernbg Nice examples.

I wonder if there are cases where what we are requesting would not be desirable. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of an example where the current behavior (where indents and text-wrap are involved) is ever desirable. If there are such cases, then I would propose some kind of option such as "Text wrap affects indents."

[MikeW]

Yeah, I've never ran into a situation where the ID/APub behavior was desired and so cannot therefore think of one.

When I have had to run bullets around objects in ID, I do remember cursing though.