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Brad Brighton

Effect of dodge/burn outside of brush circle

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I'm sure this is something I'm doing/misunderstanding but I haven't figured it out yet. Anyone care to share some insight?

The attached video shows a zero hardness, low flow, attempt to dodge the shadows of an image but when I get anywhere close to the highlights, weird things start happening, such as:

  • the effect of the brush is applied outside the bounds of the brush
  • the effect of the brush is applied to areas specifically outside the selected tonal range
  • the effect of the brush has an unexpected result

The things that appear NOT to change the behavior:

  • Changing the tonal range
  • Changing protect hue
  • Changing the brush size (it still impacts outside the visible bounds of the brush)

Thoughts?

Affinity Photo 1.7.2 Production, macOS X Mojave

EDIT: Added a screenshot of the image details

Screen Shot 2019-09-09 at 5.14.50 PM.png


https://bmb.photos | https://vocallength.com Focus: The unexpected, the abstract, the extreme on screen, paper, & other physical outputTools: macOS (Primary: Mojave, MBP2018), Canon (Primary: 5D3), iPhone (Primary: X), Epson

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If you click on the more button what brush settings do you have set? 

On the General tab what blend mode is set?


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo, Publisher Beta 1.7.0.140, Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials Instagram & Flickr - Affinity Live 19th June 2019

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Do you have the 32-Bit Preview panel and Enable EDR enabled and perhaps Show EDR Clipping. If so do you have a supported Extended Dynamic Range monitor? If you aren't sure what is your monitor model?

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1 hour ago, Lee D said:

Do you have the 32-Bit Preview panel and Enable EDR enabled and perhaps Show EDR Clipping. If so do you have a supported Extended Dynamic Range monitor? If you aren't sure what is your monitor model?

Hi @Lee D,

Bingo - for part of this. Thank you. "Enable EDR" was on; "Show EDR Clipping" and "Prevent display tone-mapping" were both off. And no, this display is not EDR.

The remaining question: does this also explain the action outside the brush circle or am I misunderstanding the bounds of the brush? Shouldn't its effects be limited to a maximum of that bound?


https://bmb.photos | https://vocallength.com Focus: The unexpected, the abstract, the extreme on screen, paper, & other physical outputTools: macOS (Primary: Mojave, MBP2018), Canon (Primary: 5D3), iPhone (Primary: X), Epson

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7 hours ago, Lee D said:

It's mostly due to the hardness setting, if it's set low the effect will expand outside of the brush preview area, the same happens in other apps as well.

@Lee D Is this an intentional behavior change in 1.7 because with the same settings, 1.6.x honors the bounds as a maximum (that is, hardness takes the effect UP TO the bounds but not beyond it). 1.7 seems to treat the bounds as a minimum effect, not a maximum. 


https://bmb.photos | https://vocallength.com Focus: The unexpected, the abstract, the extreme on screen, paper, & other physical outputTools: macOS (Primary: Mojave, MBP2018), Canon (Primary: 5D3), iPhone (Primary: X), Epson

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Hi Brad,

This hasn't changed between 1.6 and 1.7—neither version honours the bounds of the brush. You can try and combat this by reducing the accumulation of the brush you are using but this may have an undesired effect.

As Lee said, this happens in other apps and I think it is generally expected. The brush is still the same size but the bounding circle does get smaller when you reduce the hardness. The feathered effect shouldn't be much smaller than when using 100% hardness, even though the bounding circle looks smaller but remember the brush is the same size throughout so it has to find a happy middle-ground.

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Hi @Chris B,

Thanks for weighing in. I re-tested before I posted my most recent followup so I'll see if I can put a video together for it. I don't know if I'm misinterpreting what I'm seeing or what, but I feel like I'm definitely seeing a difference in behavior between the two versions. 


https://bmb.photos | https://vocallength.com Focus: The unexpected, the abstract, the extreme on screen, paper, & other physical outputTools: macOS (Primary: Mojave, MBP2018), Canon (Primary: 5D3), iPhone (Primary: X), Epson

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On 9/12/2019 at 12:50 AM, Chris B said:

Hi Brad,

This hasn't changed between 1.6 and 1.7—neither version honours the bounds of the brush. You can try and combat this by reducing the accumulation of the brush you are using but this may have an undesired effect.

As Lee said, this happens in other apps and I think it is generally expected. The brush is still the same size but the bounding circle does get smaller when you reduce the hardness. The feathered effect shouldn't be much smaller than when using 100% hardness, even though the bounding circle looks smaller but remember the brush is the same size throughout so it has to find a happy middle-ground.

So in the process of getting into the nitty-gritty of making sure everything was equal for the video, a few things are becoming clearer:

  • The bounding circle may or may not actually delineate the bounds of the effect (dodging in the case of the example I'm testing)
  • Hardness at 100% does bring the effect within the bounding circle. As the hardness is reduced, the core effect zone shrinks within the bounding circle while the external "corona" if you will grows.
  • Opacity and flow each impacts my ability to determine whether the effect is being applied or not, both in actual application as well as preview mode (as would be expected)
  • The differences I noted between 1.6.11 and 1.7.2 are probably explained by different settings in the opacity, flow

If these described behaviors are as expected, then I guess we're done on this thread. I figured it was something about me; that's why this is here, not in the bug threads. 

If these behaviors seem off in some fashion, perhaps more investigation is required.


https://bmb.photos | https://vocallength.com Focus: The unexpected, the abstract, the extreme on screen, paper, & other physical outputTools: macOS (Primary: Mojave, MBP2018), Canon (Primary: 5D3), iPhone (Primary: X), Epson

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I see every reason as to why you began discussing this. However you will note that the brush size stays the same and the circle gets smaller with 0% hardness so the brush will never paint bigger than the brush with 100% hardness.

I think the circle with 0% hardness is pretty much saying 'this is where the brush will be almost solid and anything outside of the circle is the feathering, but it will still be smaller than the same sized brush with 100% hardness'.

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7 hours ago, Chris B said:

I see every reason as to why you began discussing this. However you will note that the brush size stays the same and the circle gets smaller with 0% hardness so the brush will never paint bigger than the brush with 100% hardness.

I think the circle with 0% hardness is pretty much saying 'this is where the brush will be almost solid and anything outside of the circle is the feathering, but it will still be smaller than the same sized brush with 100% hardness'.

Hi @Chris B,

I do apologize for being obtuse but my American English reading of your comment confuses me. Maybe we have a terminology thing going on here? 

When I describe the bounding circle, I refer to the white circle whose width can be set in a variety of ways. When I describe the _effect_ of the brush, it is outside or inside of that circle.

When you say, for example, "the brush stays the same and the circle gets smaller", the white circle (see my definition above) does not change size visually (except when I specifically change its width), even though the visible _effect_ and the reach of the tool (inside or outside that circle) does indeed change on changes to hardness.

Thanks for bearing with me... are we saying the same thing just in different phrasings?


https://bmb.photos | https://vocallength.com Focus: The unexpected, the abstract, the extreme on screen, paper, & other physical outputTools: macOS (Primary: Mojave, MBP2018), Canon (Primary: 5D3), iPhone (Primary: X), Epson

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