Picture Frame - can't delete or unpin

[tariq]

I seem to have got stuck with a Picture Frame which I can't delete or "unpin" event hough it appears not to be pinned.

Selecting from the Layers menu also shows Delete as greyed out.

Restarting Affinity Publisher and reloading the file doesn't help..

I've noticed this frame has no "pin" int the text.

[carl123]

As shown in your screenshot...

Select the "Master A" layer, right-click and select Edit Detached, delete the picture frame then click the Finish button

[tariq]

 

thanks @carl123 - that worked - bt could you explain what happened and why?

 

that frame isn't a master page frame...?

[thomaso]

The node icons of this frame ( x ) give the info that that frame is a master page object – whereas 'normal' frames show round dots instead ( • ).

As you can see in your layers panel all objects are inside a layer named "(Master A)".

[carl123]

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, tariq said:

that frame isn't a master page frame...?

You are correct in that the Picture Frame is not on the master page (i.e. not a master page item) but it has been dragged/placed into the master page's layer structure on your normal page.

Not sure exactly how you did it but one way would be to create a Picture Frame on your normal page, use Edit Detached as before, then drag that Picture Frame into the master page's layer structure on your normal page.

There may be other ways to get the Picture Frame in that "state" but the above shows one way it could be done

[tariq]

Thanks @carl123

 

I wonder if AP should make it difficult / impossible to accidentally change the Master Page design from normal pages.. that seems like a good design principles and key to DTP imho.

 

 

[habibandpatia]

based on the experience that I experienced ...

i do it with
copying the content and the problematic ones, and I revise it carefully

[carl123]

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

2 minutes ago, tariq said:

I wonder if AP should make it difficult / impossible to accidentally change the Master Page design from normal pages.. that seems like a good design principles and key to DTP imho.

 

No, the ability to change the master page items on a single page is one of Publisher's strengths, not a weakness

You just have to be careful not to do it accidentally and to understand the effects/consequences when you do it on purpose

[habibandpatia]

as for what I need to do when it's in the form of text I move y to microsoft office or notepad first.

and when it's in the form of an image or vector ... I first make it a new page or document for a while

Edited September 8, 2019 by habibandpatia

[tariq]

28 minutes ago, thomaso said:

The node icons of this frame ( x ) give the info that that frame is a master page object – whereas 'normal' frames show round dots instead ( • ).

As you can see in your layers panel all objects are inside a layer named "(Master A)".

is this the wrong way to compose a page?

 

should my page items be outside the layer named "Master A"?

 

[Hilltop]

6 minutes ago, tariq said:

is this the wrong way to compose a page?

should my page items be outside the layer named "Master A"?

 

Perhaps this section of the Help file may be helpful: https://affinity.help/publisher/en-US.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Pages/masterPages.html?title=Master pages

[thomaso]

It depends on the flexibility you need for your objects. I would only place those objects on a master which should not change their size or position. Even changing look (style) can be a reason not to use an object as master page object. Because you need to detach it reduces the advantage of master page objects down to those which shouldn't become changed. (Text, as you might have noticed, is a little different, because you may change text content without detaching its frame)

[carl123]

Think of the Master page as the page where you want elements you put on that master page to appear on all (or several) of your pages

Like the following: A page header (e.g. logo), Footers, Page Numbers etc

It is also used to hold placeholders for things such as Text and Picture Frames. These placeholder items are just blank Text and Picture Frames but they will appear in the same place on every page that uses that Master page, which allows you to maintain a consistent layout for your document should that be a requirement (such as a book etc). 

If you edit one of these placeholder items on a normal page it will show up within the master page's layer structure for that page but it will still be unique to that page and not affect the same placeholder items on your Master Page or other normal pages.

Unique items you add to a normal page such as an extra image or a table will appear above and outside the master page's layer structure for that page.  Normally you should not attempt to place them or drag them within the master page's layer structure for that page.

For some documents a Master Page is essential (e.g. a book).  For other documents where all the pages are laid out differently you may decide not to use a master page at all.

This video may be of some help if you have not already seem it

https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/tutorials/publisher/desktop/video/337264378/

 

[sfriedberg]

I'm adding to this older thread, because I just ran into an easy sure-fire way to get this to happen in AffPub 1.7.3.  (I've been avoiding 1.8 until more of the headaches are shaken out.)

Create a text frame on Master Page A.  Create a page 1 and apply Master Page A.  Place some external files, in my case SVG images, on page 1.  Vector crop the external files (don't know if that step is necessary to reproduce or not, but it does affect the layer structure so I'm mentioning it.)  Type some text into the text frame on page 1 and pin the external files, floating, to positions in the text.  So far, so good.  Now unpin one of the external files.  It gets added to the Master Page A layer structure instead of being returned to the page 1 layer structure.

When the external files are placed, they clearly belong to the page 1 layer structure.  As you pin each one, they become children of the placeholder text frame of Master Page A, which is sensible since that's where the text they are pinned to belongs.  However, when you unpin them, they do not return to the original page 1 layer structure, but instead become part of Master Page A outside the placeholder text frame layer.  Seems to me they should be returning to the page 1 layer structure.

[Added in edit]  Related to this, to move a pin location, you have to Edit Detached the Master Page A group of layers.  Then you can drag around pin locations all you want until you exit from Edit Detached.  So some aspects of text in master placeholder frames (like basic editing and applying styles) don't require detaching from the master, while others (like moving pin locations or recovering placed objects through Arrange > Move Outside) clearly do.

[thomaso]

24 minutes ago, sfriedberg said:

However, when you unpin them, they do not return to the original page 1 layer structure, but instead become part of Master Page A outside the placeholder text frame layer.  Seems to me they should be returning to the page 1 layer structure.

I think this is less a pinning or master page issue but rather a general matter of layer management.

You can experience the same effect with grouped items coming from various layers, regardless of master page or not. Whenever you apply 'group', its containing layers get moved in the layers hierarchy and end up next to each other. Then, whenever you apply 'ungroup' the items don't move back to their position before grouping in the layers hierarchy but remain next to each other. – Nevertheless, that can be quite usefull, e.g. for complex grouped content, like illustrations.

I assume to force APub to remind the original layers position it would need additional coding (+ memory of layer hierarchy), at least when grouping there doesn't appear such a "cycle future" option yet in the history panel as for other user actions: 

So I am afraid it would need a feature request to get an additional UI option how grouped layers hierarchy should be treated if un-grouped.

(btw.: I would appreciate this possibility, especially when (if?) global layers will come true in APub. Before Affinity I was used to a global layer structure of e.g. Text / Image / Illu /marks /... with an option like "keep layers" which allowed to group objects of different layers for a specific action and ungroupe them afterwards without losing their global layer positions.)

[sfriedberg]

15 hours ago, thomaso said:

I think this is less a pinning or master page issue but rather a general matter of layer management.

You can experience the same effect with grouped items coming from various layers, regardless of master page or not. Whenever you apply 'group', its containing layers get moved in the layers hierarchy and end up next to each other. Then, whenever you apply 'ungroup' the items don't move back to their position before grouping in the layers hierarchy but remain next to each other. – Nevertheless, that can be quite usefull, e.g. for complex grouped content, like illustrations.

I assume to force APub to remind the original layers position it would need additional coding (+ memory of layer hierarchy),

I don't need the layers to return precisely to their pre-pinned position in the layer stack, which may have been radically altered by other actions between pin and unpin.  But it seems pretty clear to me that they should be moved outside the Master Page A part of the stack.  When they are unpinned, they are moved outside the placeholder text frame of the master page.   But they aren't really part of the master page content, and no longer have any relationship (like pinning) to anything that does belong to the master page, and so should be moved all the way outside the master page.  Any stack ordering that doesn't hide them under the master page would be OK with me.

In a different app, I, too, have used group/ungroup to gather together scattered layers into a contiguous and coherent range in the layer stack.  However, I have the expectation that grouping and ungrouping a bunch of elements leaves them all at their original level of nesting in the layer stack.  In that app, there are other ways to combine layers, like effects and clip masking.  These are a bit more complex than grouping, but when you break apart the combinations, the original layers end up at their original nesting level (and so do any new layers created as a side effect of making the combo).   You don't have to break apart a combination, then clean up the results to return things to the original situation.

[thomaso]

On 3/28/2020 at 5:49 AM, sfriedberg said:

When they are unpinned, they are moved outside the placeholder text frame of the master page.   But they aren't really part of the master page content, and no longer have any relationship (like pinning) to anything that does belong to the master page, and so should be moved all the way outside the master page. 

I agree, here UI and behavior are confusing and appear buggy:

1. If I pin an object to a master text frame on a document page then the pinned object ...
a.) keeps it round handles and can be moved without detaching
b.) the pinned object layer does not show the orange marking stripe in the layers panel

But when I unpin this object then ...
a.) it handles turn to master object handles and the object can't get moved without detaching
b.) the layer still has no orange marker

So the least confusing would be if an unpinned object gets its layer placed outside the master layer – like a text frame does which I create from an overflowing master text frame.

[Gabe]

Hi all,

Thanks for spotting this. Issue logged. 

[Patrick Connor]

We have made fixes/improvements to this area (Object pinned to a master page text frame becomes part of the masterpage when unpinned) of the program in the latest release.

The fixes and how to update are described in these forum posts.  

• Affinity Publisher 1.8.4 for Windows         ( Microsoft Store and Affinity Store )
• Affinity Publisher 1.8.4 for macOS            ( Mac App Store and Affinity Store )

We would appreciate you checking that this issue has now been resolved for you,

[sfriedberg]

I just upgraded from 1.8.3 to 1.8.4 and tried unpinning/repinning/repeat a simple case, and it seemed to work fine.  One great annoyance squashed!  Thank you.