Text Count

[Stefos]

I was wondering whether there will be a way of quickly making a text count within the software. I am thinking this is a basic requirement in publishing software?

[Joachim_L]

No text count available in the current version of Publisher, but an often demanded feature. Maybe this will be included in a later version?

[Stefos]

Just now, Joachim_L said:

No text count available in the current version of Publisher, but an often demanded feature. Maybe this will be included in a later version?

Thanks, hope so!

[Fixx]

2 hours ago, Stefos said:

I am thinking this is a basic requirement in publishing software?

No, it is not. But sometimes useful for quite a many users so it would be nice to have.

[Petar Petrenko]

It would be nice if it is placed on the info line at the bottom of the app and always visible. If text is selected, the info would be about the selection, otherwise for the whole document.

[CarlM]

On 9/5/2019 at 5:38 PM, Petar Petrenko said:

It would be nice if it is placed on the info line at the bottom of the app and always visible. If text is selected, the info would be about the selection, otherwise for the whole document.

But what if the text frames aren't connected? How would Publisher decide what you want to see? That's the difference between a Word Processor and a Desktop publisher. Pages in a DTP are individual elements whereas in a WP the document pages are simply divisions or breaks in a continuous stream of text.

Edited September 7, 2019 by CarlM
spelling error

[Petar Petrenko]

6 minutes ago, CarlM said:

But what if the text frames aren't connected? How would Publisher decide what you want to see? That's the difference between a Word Processor and a Desktop publisher. Pages in a DTP are individual elements whereas in a WP the document pages are simply divisions or breaks in a continuous stream of text.

By default the info would be for the whole document regardless the connection of the frames. If you select some text then the info would be for selected text only.

[fde101]

A third level is relevant: if editing a series of linked frames, the display for unselected text should be the count for the series of frames (or for the current frame if not linked).

The indicator where the counts are should clearly spell out what the counts cover:

"Document: X words, X characters, X paragraphs"

"Text flow: X words, X characters, X paragraphs"

"Selection: X words, X characters, X paragraphs"

 

Consider also adding a "Statistics" studio panel similar to the one in Mellel for those who want more detail:

https://www.mellel.com/mellel-flare/Content/Topics/Appendix/Screen Descriptions/Palettes/Statistics Palette.htm

[Petar Petrenko]

1 hour ago, fde101 said:

the display for unselected text should be the count for the series of frames

it is called "text thread".

Addition:

# of chars with and without spaces.

[fde101]

9 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

# of chars with and without spaces.

I like that idea, but I actually was starting to think this particular count should be moved to a separate panel anyway to save space in the main UI - I think words and paragraphs should be sufficient in the basic view, and all of the data, including characters with and without whitespace, for each of the three categories (document, thread/flow, selection) could be in a separate Statistics panel for those who need the added detail.

[Petar Petrenko]

4 minutes ago, fde101 said:

I like that idea, but I actually was starting to think this particular count should be moved to a separate panel anyway to save space in the main UI

No need for that. There are 3 casses:

1. By default, the text info is for the whole document.
2. If you select text then it is just for the selection.
3. If there are multiple threads, with CTRL-A you can select the text in a specific thread and you will have the info for it.

[MikeW]

10 minutes ago, fde101 said:

I like that idea, but I actually was starting to think this particular count should be moved to a separate panel anyway to save space in the main UI - I think words and paragraphs should be sufficient in the basic view, and all of the data, including characters with and without whitespace, for each of the three categories (document, thread/flow, selection) could be in a separate Statistics panel for those who need the added detail.

Whitespace is a funny thing. It includes items like a linebreak. Now, I don't use linebreaks often, but would you want those counted as a "space"?

[fde101]

2 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Whitespace is a funny thing. It includes items like a linebreak. Now, I don't use linebreaks often, but would you want those counted as a "space"?

I probably wouldn't want that in either count in a DTP program.

In a text editor yes, but for reasons that would not be relevant to DTP.

 

8 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

No need for that. There are 3 casses:

I don't like the idea of needing to select the text in a thread/flow to get a count for that.  I think I would rather have it show the count for that thread by default when I am editing that thread and don't have any text selection.  Again, the panel would be for added details and could provide information that would be overkill to keep in a constantly-visible summary area, so no reason not to include all of the levels of detail in one place there.

[Petar Petrenko]

25 minutes ago, fde101 said:

I don't like the idea of needing to select the text in a thread/flow to get a count for that

What about if you have 10+ threads?

Or imagine this. Let's say you work on an encyclopedia which has 20+ text boxes on each page and they are 200+ in total. What then?

[fde101]

16 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

What about if you have 10+ threads?

Or imagine this. Let's say you work on an encyclopedia which has 20+ text boxes on each page and the are 200+ in total. What then?

When not editing the text, you would see the total for the document.

When editing the text with nothing highlighted, you would see the counts for the text box you are editing (or for the set of boxes that are linked together with that one).

When something is highlighted, you would see the counts for what is highlighted.

 

My suggested statistics panel would only show the highlighted counts when something is highlighted, and would only show the "Current Thread" (or Flow) counts when you are editing a text box.

[garrettm30]

My preference would be some sort of Word Count Studio rather than have these things always displayed by default, as Publisher is not usually or primarily the place where copy is composed (and if it is, word count is less relevant, since then you would just see how much space is left rather than rely on the indirect metric that is word count).

Now if Serif were to make a dedicated "Story Persona" someday…

[Petar Petrenko]

15 minutes ago, garrettm30 said:

Now if Serif were to make a dedicated "Story Persona" someday…

"Story Persona"? What for? For something that can occupy 1 or 2 rows of info?

IMO Persona is created if only:

• there are too many tools connected together, or;
• there is no room on the workspace, or;
• just for clarity.

[garrettm30]

1 hour ago, Petar Petrenko said:

"Story Persona"? What for?

Certainly not just for word counts. Something of the sort has been suggested in other places as a solution to meet several needs, such as:

• The need for a Story Editor (like InDesign), where one can work with text in a story without formatting.
• Some have expressed the wish for a composer mode to focus on the text outside of layout and without the distraction of the extra tools.

If such a persona were created, then, in my mind, that would be a good place to always show word count by default. But of course, that would not be the only way to access word counts.

[Petar Petrenko]

4 minutes ago, garrettm30 said:

Certainly not just for word counts. Something of the sort has been suggested in other places as a solution to meet several needs, such as:

• The need for a Story Editor (like InDesign), where one can work with text in a story without formatting.
• Some have expressed the wish for a composer mode to focus on the text outside of layout and without the distraction of the extra tools.

If such a persona were created, then, in my mind, that would be a good place to always show word count by default. But of course, that would not be the only way to access word counts.

Still no need for another Persona.

BTW, in my 25+ years long career I never used Story Editor in PageMaker, InDesign or Quark. I always wanted to see how changes reflect to complete layout.

[garrettm30]

2 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

BTW, in my 25+ years long career I never used Story Editor in PageMaker, InDesign or Quark.

I do use it in InDesign somewhat frequently. It helps deal with large amounts of overset text and also with hidden text.

[Fixx]

14 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

in my 25+ years long career I never used Story Editor in PageMaker, InDesign or Quark. I always wanted to see how changes reflect to complete layout.

It seems there are two ind of persons: those who use story editor regularly; and those who do not see any use for it. 

[seanf]

I would also love to see this feature. I regularly produce a school newsletter and it is quite often the case when I have a space to fill, that I ask students and teachers for some 'stocking fillers'. Their inevitable first question is 'how many words'. Having used PagePlus for many years, the task was easy (F5 to fill text box with placeholder, then Tools>Word Count. Easy and painless. This is the first time I've used APu for the newsletter and was puzzled why something similar is not available. As a workaround, I thought I could just copy and paste the placeholder text from APu into Word and get the count from there. Nope, pasting placeholder text into Word just results in two words, <Filler Text>. I've had to resort to making a similar sized text box in PagePlus and counting the text from there!

Please make my life easier!

[MikeW]

1 minute ago, seanf said:

I would also love to see this feature. I regularly produce a school newsletter and it is quite often the case when I have a space to fill, that I ask students and teachers for some 'stocking fillers'. Their inevitable first question is 'how many words'. Having used PagePlus for many years, the task was easy (F5 to fill text box with placeholder, then Tools>Word Count. Easy and painless. This is the first time I've used APu for the newsletter and was puzzled why something similar is not available. As a workaround, I thought I could just copy and paste the placeholder text from APu into Word and get the count from there. Nope, pasting placeholder text into Word just results in two words, <Filler Text>. I've had to resort to making a similar sized text box in PagePlus and counting the text from there!

Please make my life easier!

After filling with placeholder text, are you Expanding it? Then it will copy/paste fine into Word or a text editor.

[seanf]

 

50 minutes ago, MikeW said:

After filling with placeholder text, are you Exanding it? Then it will copy/paste fine into Word or a text editor. 

No, I wasn't but tried it and it does now paste correctly into Word - thanks.

I would still love to have an in-app word count though, it would make things so much easier.