Unable to update Master Page Dimensions (new pages adopt old size)

[Jeff41]

• What is your operating system and version (Windows 10, OSX Mojave, etc)?

Mojave

•    What happened for you (and what you expected to happen)

When I change spread setup size of master (dimensions), then I create new pages to adopt master, the new pages size are of the old master dimensions

•    Provide a recipe for creating the problem (step-by-step what you did).

1. I have a master size of 7x10, I create new pages with master and those new pages are 7x10. Works as expected

2. I change the master size dimensions from 7x10 to 6x9. Now when I create a new page to adopt the master (its the only master in there), it will create new pages with 7x10 still.

I could just create a new document from scratch, but I am working on a template type of file I created with certain layers, etc. I don't want to have to recreate this. I should just be able to change the master document size as needed.

•    Screenshots (very handy) or a screen capture/video.

Video: https://d.pr/v/6XG4zB

•    Any unusual hardware (like tablets or external monitors or drives that may affect things) or relevant other applications like font managers or display managers.

No

•    Did this same thing used to work and if so have you changed anything recently? (software or hardware)

No

 

It could be I am doing something wrong, if so, please let me know if that is the case.

[Pauls]

No nothing wrong it's just not you expect. The pages are created to a document size (which can be altered by changing the page spread sizes). Master pages adopt the size of the document but can be different sizes/orientations, they don't control the document size.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Pauls said:

No nothing wrong it's just not you expect. The pages are created to a document size (which can be altered by changing the page spread sizes). Master pages adopt the size of the document but can be different sizes/orientations, they don't control the document size.

But when adding new pages, we cannot specify a spread size. The possible spread sizes of the new page(s) are either (a) the size of the Master Page we specify or (b) the original spread size from when the document was created or (c) the last size specified for some spread in the document by using Spread Setup.

All of these except (a) have problems:

• Approach (b) suffers from the fact that the original spread size can't be seen, nor changed in Document Setup. And since spread sizes can be changed, there may be no spreads any more that are the same size as the original, and so the new spread size can't be predicted. That original size may be wrong, and especially so if it's different from the Master Page we specify.
• Approach (c) suffers from the fact that the spread I'm creating now might be unrelated to the last spread size I created or changed. So assuming that size for the new spread, especially when it's different from the Master Page I said to use, is wrong just like in (b). It just means that my next action after adding the spread must then be to use Spread Setup to change it.

Because spreads can be different sizes, the only approach that makes sense to me is (a): base it on the current size of the specified Master Page.

Or is there some aspect of this that I haven't recognized?

[Jeff41]

Thanks for the responses.

Oh okay I see. It was my error in understanding how it worked. 

To solve the issue, I simply needed to change spread setup > dimensions in both the master AND when in the pages area. So I had to do it twice to work.

Now it creates the correct size.

[thomaso]

On 8/15/2019 at 5:10 PM, walt.farrell said:

Approach (b) suffers from the fact that the original spread size can't be seen, nor changed in Document Setup. And since spread sizes can be changed, there may be no spreads any more that are the same size as the original, and so the new spread size can't be predicted.

The initially chosen document page size appears numerically always as default size when creating a new master page.
This size is also used for new document pages - regardless of selected any or None master page for it.

On 8/15/2019 at 5:10 PM, walt.farrell said:

Because spreads can be different sizes, the only approach that makes sense to me is (a): base it on the current size of the specified Master Page. 

That would force to choose a master page when creating a new document page.

On 8/15/2019 at 5:10 PM, walt.farrell said:

Or is there some aspect of this that I haven't recognized? 

Yes. I guess no one yet has recognized the use/goal of the way master pages can become assigned to document pages without assigning their size, too.
This feature might be "by Design" but I can't imagine it is designed in purpose. Possibly it is just a workaround around the conflict when various master pages get assigned to a document page: whereas this masters may have different sizes the document page must have 1 only – and therefore it appears the easiest to ignore all the masters sizes.

This way master pages are not pages actually but rather margin settings (page size independent !) + object containers (which appear as Master page layer on document pages). It is interesting but also makes me doubt about "by Design" that I may move, rotate, scale, stretch and shear a complete Master page layer on a document page without the need to detach – whereas I need to detach it to change one single object color for instance. At the moment I still have the impression that this way of master page handling is very helpful to create chaotic documents with chaotic layouts in quite a short time. Could help develop a new level of typography ... David Carson 2.0.