Jump to content
1earJim

Problems with Selections and poor edge definition

Recommended Posts

I am a relativity new user to Affinity Photo.


I have included five files. 1 the Affinity Photo file and 4 jpg images for figures I refer to in the following.


I am developing a series of flower pictured that include some complex mask. I am defining the mask using the tool under the Refine Selection. The workflow is to make the initial selection of the flowers using the Selection Brush Tool. Once the initial selection is completed, I press the “Refine…” button. I continue using the using the Adjustment Brush in the Refine Selection dialog box. I have not adjusted the setting in this dialog, and I am using the default values. I complete the second refinement using the Overlay Preview. I then switch to the Black matte and that is when the “Ghost Images,” as I call them, appear. See Figure 1, first jpg image, “Fig 1 Ghost Images [date and time].jpg.” I carefully remove these Ghosts by adjusting the cursor size and by try not to let the cursor touch the part of the image I want to keep in the Foreground. After I lift the mouse button and the refine selection computations are completed, the selected Ghost Images is usually removed, but others will appear or reappear in other areas of the image. Most, but not all, of the Ghost Images appear to be a bleed through of parts of the image in the background, See Figure 2 in “Fig 2 More Ghost Images [date and time].jpg” The areas shown in all of these figures have repaired many  times.


The area shown in Figure 3 in “Fig 3 Major Problem area [date and time].jpg” is one of the worst areas and has been repaired, and repaired, and repaired….
One several occupations, the computer went into a very long computation period. I first though the system had lockup, but it eventually it completed the computation. Once completed, all the selections were lost, and only the base image appeared. The “Selection Brush Tool” had been turned off. I pressed the selection tool and the computer went into another long computation period and was able to recover most, but not all of the previous selections. A large amount of the most recent changes was lost and had to be repeated.
Another aspect of these problems is my inability to get crisp and sharp edges. Figure 4, “Fig 4 Areas with Difficult edges [date and time].jpg” show an area where getting a good sharp edge is nearly impossible.


This problem does not appear to be an “one of” problem. I have completed 47 images so far. The problems, describe above, have occurred during most of the selection and refinement process. The problem is worst on images with the more complex masks. Also, the longer I work on an image, the worst the problem becomes. On several occasions, I abandon the problem image and started over. The restart seamed to work better. But again, the longer I worked on an image the worse the problem became.
The dialog Refine Selection Dialog box has several settings that I do not understand. The settings I am using are shown in Figure 1 and are the default settings. I do not understand what these setting do.  Can adjusting the settings in the Refine Selection dialog box help?


I would like any suggestions on how I can eliminate this problem or a least minimize it.
 

0151-Orange_Flower_with_buds_v2_IMG_0151.afphoto

Fig 1 Ghost Images 2019-08-10_18-43-00.jpg

Fig 2 More Ghost Images 2019-08-10_18-43-23.jpg

Fig 3 Major Problem area 2019-08-10_18-44-16.jpg

Fig 4 Areas with Difficult edges 2019-08-10_18-48-19.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a link to the help page for selection refinement: https://affinity.help/photo/English.lproj/pages/Selections/selections_refine.html once you understand what they do it should help you tweak your selections.
 

A video on selection refinement to watch.
https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/tutorials/photo/desktop/video/334273469


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo & Publisher - Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish the upgrade would refine the Refine Brush tool. I own PSP 201`9 Ultimate and they have a Smart Secectiopn Tool that is awesome. Don't get me wrong. I love Affinity Photo and use it instead PS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The file appears to be truncated (shorter than expected) !!

 


Affinity Photo  1.8.0.585   -  Beta 1.8.0.555

Windows 10 Home  1909 (build 18363.657) - 64 bit processor - AMD A4-5000 APU with Radeon HD Graphics  1.50GHz - RAM 8,00 GB
Calibrated Monitor (Datacolor Spyder5 Pro)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not just you - Affinity Photo's pixel selection tools are, to be frank, non-intuitive and kludgey.  I feel like I'm trying to make an architectural drawing with a crayon when using them.  It's not a good feeling.  There's no default anti-alias selection other than the brush which totally baffles.  Photoshop has had that for decades.  Honestly I'm regretting my purchase at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@1earJim

With your subject residing on a dark / black background,
I think you would be better of using channels as a work around.
Maybe, if possible, you could post the original jpg, tiff.. so we can give it a try...


Hubert
 


Affinity Photo  1.8.0.585   -  Beta 1.8.0.555

Windows 10 Home  1909 (build 18363.657) - 64 bit processor - AMD A4-5000 APU with Radeon HD Graphics  1.50GHz - RAM 8,00 GB
Calibrated Monitor (Datacolor Spyder5 Pro)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solid edges from selections/fills are sometimes impossible as AfStudio (Photo persona) appears to force AA which incorrectly handles the selection on the inside (few pixels) and the outside (few pixels) of the selected pixel area(s).  I have seen this behavior in AfPhoto program as well (AKA: without using AfPhoto via AfStudio). 

If I try to fill a square selection that is 400px, I get a solid 398x398 square that totals approx 402x402 pixels with incorrect edges.
As if I used a 1-2 pixel blur on a hard edged fill.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/30/2020 at 9:58 AM, .eb said:

If I try to fill a square selection that is 400px, I get a solid 398x398 square that totals approx 402x402 pixels with incorrect edges.
As if I used a 1-2 pixel blur on a hard edged fill.

@.eb Is there a solution for this? I'm facing this issue as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If honesty is the best policy then I have to say. . .I avoid the 'refine' selection like the plague. In my experience it makes more work trying to clean up the mess which it produces. For some images it works fine, but when it messes up - it messes up royally. This tool needs some serious improvement before I sing its praises. 


Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

These are not my own words but I sure like this quote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found a "sometimes-workaround" which is nonsensical.
- I copy paste the selection.. if it doesn't work well... I move what is to be selected 1pixel in any direction. Then I try again. This has worked 90% of the time.. but has required 3-8 pastes on average to get working **AND** I have not tried this on large selection areas.

The more I use AffPhoto, the more I think it was only built to tweak photography.. as photographers probably enjoy this silly unavoidable auto-feathering.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, .eb said:

The more I use AffPhoto, the more I think it was only built to tweak photography.. as photographers probably enjoy this silly unavoidable auto-feathering.

As a photographer I can tell you no way. Photo is mostly based on bad or dated algorithms combined with severe usability issues. I used it a couple of times for use with Designer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried to do a simple Flood selection of blew shy, several clouds around palm trees today, abandoned ship.  Not worth the hassle and I watched tons of tutorials.  Mostly much easier, simple, dark contrast used for tutorials.  The selection tool is not that much better. Sometimes it just seems to work, sometimes hours of work. Eraser is just as good.


Cecil 

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB, macOS,iPad Pro iPadOS

 

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/4/2020 at 12:57 AM, AffinityJules said:

If honesty is the best policy then I have to say. . .I avoid the 'refine' selection like the plague. In my experience it makes more work trying to clean up the mess which it produces. For some images it works fine, but when it messes up - it messes up royally. This tool needs some serious improvement before I sing its praises. 

Same. I like the idea of a refinement tool - but it's not nearly consistent enough, it almost always produces undesirable results for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jowday, you obviously missed the point .. the name of the product has "Photo" in it bud. 
--
@ALL: Who here enjoys being shamed for wanting a 200X Standard Digital Paint Tool Feature to be implemented in a program in 2020 ?!
AKA: the pointless, shaming "Assistant" popups.  ffs. srsly.
--
If only Adobe wasn't such a sloppy hot mess of an invasive resource hog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, .eb said:

Jowday, you obviously missed the point .. the name of the product has "Photo" in it bud. 

Another day on the internet. How did I miss the point? I tried it several times for editing photos, developing RAW files etc. Didn't fint it usable or of professional quality. I only find Photo useful for finalizing work from Designer. Which can be anything btw. Did so a few times. Then gave up and forgot about it. As a photographer I can not enjoy "the silly unavoidable auto-feathering", the poor usability and many algorithms that simply do not deliver satisfactory or "professional" results.

Fortunately I find no reason for Adobe bashing as Adobe Photoshop et al runs quite smoothly on my system(s). And is build upon very competent algorithms made by/purchased by Adobe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've hidden two posts that have been reported by various users. Please keep it civil and on topic please, otherwise I will have to lock the thread, which I really don't want to do :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another quick example of Refine not working great.

Starting with this image:

test1.jpg.c47c712479cce77d8f1d8c5b2ee3b2d7.jpg

Selection brush gives me this:

sel1.jpg.2080d6db4e7c9b1e41732c4c3213be93.jpg

So I go into refine, do the thing...

matt.jpg.d24d0dfcff3175fac5ac600eabb2322d.jpg

And I'm left with a mess...

blend.jpg.940b09c009ccf530c08b22f002a59ce3.jpg

And this is why I never use refine. Because it almost always frustrates me with the result and I end up doing it manually. Am I missing something obvious here in the Refine settings? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like there's compression artifacting around the edges which may causing refine selection to not work correctly. Is the JPG(564px x 1018px) attached to your post the only version of the image you have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

using flood select with low tolerance on the background/invert selection doesn't look bad at all for a start, however the image has a quite low resolution for the fur details

untitled.JPG.f294470bb50a5345defb4490d9250307.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note the Annual Company Closure section in the Terms of Use. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.