Publisher Export For Print - JPEG quality issues

[abfdesign]

Hi All

What is the best format for images in Affinity Publisher? I have been requesting third party adverts as JPEG if they can't figure out how to convert their fonts to curves for a PDF. But I have noticed that whatever setting I use to make my final job print ready, the adverts are quite poor quality. I can make them better looking if I export them first to EPS first, but colour space is sometimes altered.

Thanks

Andy

[Dan C]

Hi abfdesign

JPEG is a lossy format, so I recommend a lossless format such as PNG or TIFF here. Are you placing or embedding your image file? What DPI is the JPEG image & what is the DPI of your document? What is the pixel size of the JPEG and the exported size of your document/spread that the image appears on? Some sample files and screenshots of your export settings would certainly be useful here!

[abfdesign]

My document is always 300dpi. The ads are no less than 300dpi. 

I always try to use PDF/X-4. In my usual projects this works fine. It's just the jobs where I have 3rd party ads that seems to have issues. I always ask for PDF with no embedded fonts (all font to be converted to curves). But for some reason, most people supplying these ads seem to ignore or just can't outline their F-Fonts (yes, there is two F in fonts!!). Sometimes, for ease and in the nicest possible way, I suggest, "please supply a JPEG then knobhead!!"

Thanks, I'll try to see how TIFF exports. I found EPS to be okay too, but colour space changed. But if these are what works, I'll be sure to get the knobheads to supply one of these instead.

Andy

[abfdesign]

Just did a quick test. JPEG, EPS and TIFF all on one sheet. TIFF was the best, so thanks for that. EPS cam next, followed a long way behind be JPEG.

Andy

[Fixx]

That is funny as a TIF file and high quality JPEG should have about the same pixel data and Publisher should treat them similarly. Seems Publisher mistreats JPEGs somehow 

[Dan C]

I understand abfdesign, thanks for letting me know.

13 hours ago, abfdesign said:

But for some reason, most people supplying these ads seem to ignore or just can't outline their F-Fonts (yes, there is two F in fonts!!).

Some people just don't like making it easy!

13 hours ago, abfdesign said:

TIFF was the best, so thanks for that

No problem at all, happy to help

 

2 hours ago, Fixx said:

a TIF file and high quality JPEG should have about the same pixel data

AFAIK A high quality JPEG will still be compressed somewhat, meaning it can't have as much data as a TIFF - but I may be incorrect?

3 hours ago, Fixx said:

Seems Publisher mistreats JPEGs somehow

We use the same standardised library in all 3 Affinity apps, as far as we know there are no issues with image handling, but if you could provide any examples I can have our QA team investigate this further

[Fixx]

On 8/8/2019 at 11:39 AM, Dan C said:

We use the same standardised library in all 3 Affinity apps, as far as we know there are no issues with image handling, but if you could provide any examples I can have our QA team investigate this further

Well, it was abfdesign who said there is a difference. I did a test and exported simple line drawing from AD to both TIF and JPEG (100 % quality), placed them to  Publisher and got result: 

lines.pdf

I see no difference.

[Tomeric]

A bit off-topic... I expected an 100 % JPEG to be of the same quality as the uncompressed original. Now I wanted to make sure and did a simple test:

1. Create a JPEG with 100 % quality from an uncompressed TIFF
2. Import the JPEG as a second layer above the original TIFF
3. Set layer effect to "Difference"
4. Combine both layers
5. Invert
6. Zoom in to 1200 %
7. Use "Levels" to highlight the differences

And that's the result – tadaa:
Even an 100 % JPEG is somewhat different (compressed). And an 100 % Affinity-exported JPEG is closer to the original than the PShop JPEG is.
(Without these image manipulations, however, one would not see any difference.)

[thomaso]

16 minutes ago, Tomeric said:

Zoom in to 1200 %

Even an 100 % JPEG is somewhat different (compressed).

Yes, a JPEG is a compressing file format. You can't save as JPG without compression. And it even re-compresses if you open it and save it with no change. That means just by an open/save/close routine assigned often enough you will see differences.

Though I think your 1200 % zoom level makes your comparison not really helpful for daily, 'normal' use of jpg.
You might like this site with serial comparisons of JPG compression / image details / file size. Just scroll down to an image with details of your interest and hover over the various compression rates:

http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/jpeg-quality

 

 

[Tomeric]

@thomaso: I just wanted to find out if even a JPEG in highest quality is compressed or not. And the pixel clouds show the compression. Only a 100% white sample would have meant "identical".

[thomaso]

Don't you see it just by file size – compared to a not-compressing file format?

[Tomeric]

26 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Don't you see it just by file size – compared to a not-compressing file format?

Nope. Besides the raw image data there is much more info stored in almost every picture format – and in addition compression algorithms create very different results – that makes plain file sizes incomparable.
 

[thomaso]

5 minutes ago, Tomeric said:

that makes plain file sizes incomparable.

There are more image file types than RAW

[R C-R]

12 hours ago, Tomeric said:

@thomaso: I just wanted to find out if even a JPEG in highest quality is compressed or not.

The JPEG format (technically the JPEG File Interchange Format) is always compressed. There is a variant of the format that supports lossless compression, but very few apps support it. See for example the JPEG Compression section of the Wikipedia article.

Or, if you are a glutton for punishment, you can try wading through the morass of highly technical & complex articles published by standards organizations like ITU or ISO,  using the "Standard" list in the Wikipedia sidebar as a starting point for web searches.

[abfdesign]

Thanks all for everything. It's just third party ads that I have been having issue with (JPEG and  PDF). If a client can't supply with fonts converted to curve, I've been asking them for JPEG instead and just using that directly in Publisher as it is supplied. But some export to print poorly. I can't really show examples because they are not my ads. But even the PDF can be a bit challenged sometimes if they have some effect in it that doesn't agree.

Anyway, I have now made the decision to stop doing anything that has third party ads in it anymore. I have been doing this particular project five times a year since 1999 in various apps and often had problems with ads. 

So after this year, all my own works only which always seem fantastic across the whole Affinity range.

Thanks all Andy

 

 

On 8/8/2019 at 9:39 AM, Dan C said:

I understand abfdesign, thanks for letting me know.

Some people just don't like making it easy!

No problem at all, happy to help

 

AFAIK A high quality JPEG will still be compressed somewhat, meaning it can't have as much data as a TIFF - but I may be incorrect?

We use the same standardised library in all 3 Affinity apps, as far as we know there are no issues with image handling, but if you could provide any examples I can have our QA team investigate this further

 

[Hilltop]

26 minutes ago, abfdesign said:

If a client can't supply with fonts converted to curve, I've been asking them for JPEG instead and just using that directly in Publisher as it is supplied. But some export to print poorly. 

Text in JPEGs often show pixelated. If you have to use bitmaps, it's better to use PNGs.