Fill disappears when you try to put text on object

[Stokestack]

Hi all.  I needed to blank out an erroneous numeral on a bitmap, so I drew a white rectangle over it and then tried to put text over that.

When I typed a character of text, the rectangle's fill disappeared from the canvas, but the object is still shown as filled in the toolbar. Screen grabs attached.

 

[walt.farrell]

It certainly looks to me like your rectangle (or, actually, your shape text layer) still has a white fill.

But also, I'm not sure when you made the screen grab of the Layers panel. It seems to be from before you turned the rectangle into a text frame, because it still says rectangle. If done afterwards it should show as shape text, not a rectangle.

Your movie send clear to me that everything worked, and the fill remained white.

[Stokestack]

I never "turned the rectangle into a text frame." The video shows everything that happened (with the exception of tapping the key on the keyboard).

As I stated, the toolbar shows that the rectangle has a white fill; but that fill disappeared from the canvas, allowing the underlying bitmap to show through. The screen grab of the layers was the last thing I captured.

[Alfred]

9 minutes ago, Stokestack said:

I never "turned the rectangle into a text frame."

At 9 seconds your video shows a text cursor, with a T in a square bounded by a double line. At 10 seconds, because the Text Tool is active and you’ve clicked on a shape, the cursor changes to a T in a pentagon bounded by a single line. The new cursor indicates that you’re hovering over a shaped text frame.

[Stokestack]

Thanks for the reply. Is "shaped text frame" an actual object type in the application? The layer list still just says "rectangle."

Even stranger is that this behavior is not reproducible anymore. Following the exact same steps depicted in the video, I get different behavior. Now the fill remains intact, and pressing a key has no effect... unless it happens to be the F key. If it's F, an origin or pivot appears in the middle.

The slanted text here is a bitmap, just like the background in the example above. I press the F key.

AHA! Just discovered the difference. I happened to be typing the numeral "1" or "0" in the example above. This appears to be setting the opacity.

 

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Stokestack said:

Thanks for the reply. Is "shaped text frame" an actual object type in the application? The layer list still just says "rectangle

That's why I questioned when you made the screenshot, because the video clearly shows you turning the rectangle into shape text, at which point it would no longer say rectangle in the Layers panel.

[Stokestack]

Thanks, but where does it show me "doing" that? I never took any action to do that, and the screen shot of the layer list was taken after everything else occurred. So if it was changed into another type of object, that should be indicated in the layer list. And it wasn't; nor is it ever. I've repeated this sequence many times now. Nothing ever says "shape text."

[walt.farrell]

30 minutes ago, Stokestack said:

Thanks, but where does it show me "doing" that? I never took any action to do that, and the screen shot of the layer list was taken after everything else occurred. So if it was changed into another type of object, that should be indicated in the layer list. And it wasn't; nor is it ever. I've repeated this sequence many times now. Nothing ever says "shape text."

As Alfred said above:

Quote

At 9 seconds your video shows a text cursor, with a T in a square bounded by a double line. At 10 seconds, because the Text Tool is active and you’ve clicked on a shape, the cursor changes to a T in a pentagon bounded by a single line. The new cursor indicates that you’re hovering over a shaped text frame.

 

[Stokestack]

Thanks. The layer list still just says rectangle. Here's the sequence again with all relevant UI. I draw the rectangle, then click with the Text tool and press the "1" key.

 

[walt.farrell]

However, as it turns out, there are two things you could have done at 10 seconds into that original video:

1. Clicked with the Frame Text Tool, which would have converted the (Rectangle) layer into a (Shape Text) layer. Or
2. Click and drag with the Frame Text Tool, which would have put a (Frame Text) layer on top of the (Rectangle) layer.

As you managed to add some text, the "0", you must have done one of those. However, if you did either of those, the Layer panel screenshot you provided would be different. It would show either a (Shape Text) layer or a (Frame Text) layer.

But if you did neither of them, as seems to be the case by the Layer panel screenshot you gave us, you could not have gotten the text ("0') added, as you did.

[walt.farrell]

Thanks for the new video. It's clearer, because you included all the relevant info this time.

But still puzzling, as the Layer panel does not seem to match the actions visible in the image part of the window.

You might try it again, with the History panel visible, too. Perhaps that will show something.

[Stokestack]

Thanks, but please note that I didn't get any text to appear. The rectangle's fill simply disappears, but we now know that this is because I happened to hit a numeric key and changed the opacity.

Yet another video, with history panel:

 

[walt.farrell]

I suppose it's also a good time (past time, perhaps) to confirm what release of Designer you're running. What does the About dialog show?

As soon as you clicked on the rectangle with the Frame Text Tool, the Layer panel should have changed to say (Shape Text), and typing a digit at that point would simply put the digit in the text frame rather than adjusting the opacity.

It may also be good to know if you're using a mouse or trackpad, or a tablet and pen of some kind.

[Stokestack]

Indeed! Version 1.7.1, Mac OS 10.14.6

Using a mouse.

[walt.farrell]

Thanks for the new video, and the version and hardware into.

The History panel in your latest video shows that you added the rectangle, but then when you clicked on it with the Frame Text Tool you got the entry "Set current selection". That's odd, because when I click on a rectangle with the Frame Text Tool, my History entry is "Convert to text frame".

I'm out of ideas, and will wait to see what Serif comes up with when your bug report reaches the top of the pile, unless you or another user have figured it out before then.

[Stokestack]

Well, thanks for your time! I appreciate it.

[carl123]

4 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

but then when you clicked on it with the Frame Text Tool you got the entry "Set current selection

That's because after adding the Rectangle the OP clicks on the Canvas which create a "Clear selection" entry in the History panel and deselects the Rectangle

The OP then selects the Text Tool and clicks on the Rectangle but as the Rectangle is no longer selected it does not change to Shape Text (as some might expect) it simply reselects the Rectangle.  At this point the OP would need to click the Rectangle again to change it to Shape Text and then they could type in what they want.

As an aside the reason the Rectangle appears to disappear is that the OP is typing the digit "1" when the Rectangle is selected (mistaking thinking it is now Shape Text) and typing the digit "1" at this point simply sets the Rectangle's opacity to 10%. (as it should)

What is puzzling and confusing is that after deselecting the Rectangle there is a "Clear Selection" entry in the History panel but when you then reselect the Rectangle you get a History entry called "Set current selection" which overwrites the previous "Clear Selection" entry, whereas you would expect it to be added to the History panel below it.

You can see this oddity if you pause then step through the OP's last uploaded video or simply create a new document with a Rectangle and simply deselect and reselect it.

This odd behaviour (in the History panel) may be a bug or "as designed" to reduce clutter in the History panel. Only the programmers could answer that one.

 

[walt.farrell]

Thanks, Carl. That explains it all, I think.

I also realize I was confused in some of my posts above, where I thought that Stokestack had typed a 0 into a text frame, but instead had merely cleared the fill in the rectangle and exposed the existing 0 below the rectangle.

I suspect the History behavior you noted is done to reduce clutter, but yes, we would need confirmation from a Serif staff member to know for sure.

Note, too, that a "Set selection" will overwrite a "Clear selection", and any number of "Set selection" actions in a row will overwrite each other, leaving you with just one history entry. While that does nicely reduce clutter in the History panel, it also means that making a selection is not an "undoable" action. If I were making a complex multi-item selection, and clicked incorrectly, I might end up with a "Clear selection" or a different "Set current selection" overwriting the "Set current selection" I was working on. Then I need to start all over making my selection, rather than simply using Ctrl+Z to go back one entry in the History.

[Alfred]

17 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Note, too, that a "Set selection" will overwrite a "Clear selection", and any number of "Set selection" actions in a row will overwrite each other, leaving you with just one history entry. While that does nicely reduce clutter in the History panel, it also means that making a selection is not an "undoable" action. If I were making a complex multi-item selection, and clicked incorrectly, I might end up with a "Clear selection" or a different "Set current selection" overwriting the "Set current selection" I was working on. Then I need to start all over making my selection, rather than simply using Ctrl+Z to go back one entry in the History.

That used to be the case, but we now have the nifty ‘Alternative History’ feature.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Alfred said:

That used to be the case, but we now have the nifty ‘Alternative History’ feature.

Doesn't help in this case, that I can see. As there are no history entries to reflect the changing state of the selection, there's nothing to go back to except the action before I started selecting.

E.g.: I have a rectangle, a triangle, and an ellipse. I add a trapezoid shape. I then select the rectangle and the triangle. I intend to add the ellipse to the selection, but I click without holding the shift key, and end up with only the ellipse selected.

My history shows: Add callout; Set selection. I use Ctrl+Z to try to get back to the state where I had the rectangle and triangle selected, but instead I end up before the "Set selection", on the "Add trapezoid" history entry, with no sign that an alternative future exists.

[Stokestack]

Nice analysis, gents. However, we still  have the fundamental problem of the text not being added...

[Hangman]

Everything is as @carl123 has said above...

At 11 seconds in the video, you select the currently unselected rectangle with the Frame Text Tool. This makes the rectangle active. I think you've assumed at this point that by selecting the rectangle with the Frame Text Tool that you've converted it into Shape Text (which isn't the case) and so hit '1' on the keyboard expecting the text '1' to appear in the box but as @carl123 says what you've actually done is to simply change the opacity of the rectangle to 10%.

To add text to the rectangle you simply need to click once more on it (whilst it is still selected) to convert it to a Shape Text box and then click '1' (or whatever text you want to add) to add text but bear in mind that the text you add will appear at 10% opacity because you've previously applied 10% opacity to the rectangle prior to converting it to a Shape Text selection.

[Stokestack]

Thanks for the reply. In my third post above (probably easy to miss in this long thread) I already note that I figured out the opacity issue.

And I'm not selecting the rectangle at all. I'm using the Text tool to place text on top of the rectangle. I'm not using a selection tool; I'm using a Text tool. I expect a text tool to add text, not select arbitrary other objects. I don't expect anything to be converted from one kind of object to another, either. I'm just adding elements to the canvas.

[Hangman]

@Stokestack Yes, I saw that in your third post as did @carl123.

The basic point is that yes, you can select and object using the selection tool but AD also has the option to convert a shape into a text box rather than having to create a shape and a separate text box as two individual layers. The way this is achieved in AD is by selecting the Frame Text tool and double-clicking on the respective shape, whatever that shape should happen to be.

It just so happens that the chain of events in your videos resulted in giving the appearance of the rectangle you'd drawn being transparent purely because you'd selected it with the Frame Text tool by clicking once and then just so happened to type '1' on the keyboard expecting a '1' to be drawn on screen over your rectangle to hide the '0' beneath whereas in reality rather than clicking once on your rectangle with the Frame Text tool you need to click-drag with the tool to first create the text frame itself in which the text will be displayed.

Option 1

Draw a rectangle with a fill colour, then select the Frame Text tool. Move your mouse over the rectangle, click and drag a text frame over the rectangle, then type '1' with the text frame still selected. This will add your '1' in the text frame as a separate layer in the layers panel to your rectangle.

Option 2

Draw a rectangle with a colour fill, then select the Frame Text tool as before but instead of click-dragging to create a text box, simply double click the rectangle to convert it to a Shape text frame, click '1' to add text to this text frame whilst maintaining the background fill.

It was just unfortunate that you happened to draw your rectangle, select the Frame Text tool and use this to select the rectangle by clicking once and then typed '1' which had the outcome of making the selected rectangle transparent rather than as you were expecting, adding a '1' to what you thought was a text box. It's simply down to the need to click-drag when using the Frame Text tool rather than just single-clicking.

Using the Artistic Text tool in place of the Frame Text tool would have done exactly what you expected as it doesn't require the same click-drag that the Frame Text tool does.

[Stokestack]

Thanks. It was a sequence of coincidences to produce a perplexing result, for sure. While I find that there's a lot of counter-intuitive UI in Designer, this isn't an example. All of the behavior exhibited here is potentially useful and implemented reasonably.