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eobet

The selection tool is driving me insane

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  1. Make a selection
  2. Make sure a layer is highlighted
  3. Cut

Result:

  • The entire layer is cut

Expected result:

  • Just the selection from the active layer should be cut

---

How can I change this crazy, crazy behavior of Affinity Photo?

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No, it also happens when you paste from another application.

But imo, it's a horrible inconvenience.

There should be an option to silently convert all image layers to pixel layers in Affinity Photo, and also perhaps an option to have a popup that asks you about it.

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11 minutes ago, eobet said:

No, it also happens when you paste from another application.

But imo, it's a horrible inconvenience.

There should be an option to silently convert all image layers to pixel layers in Affinity Photo, and also perhaps an option to have a popup that asks you about it.

Never! You know, what the advantage of „image“ layers is? It is similar to smart object in Photoshop.

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5 minutes ago, eobet said:

it also happens when you paste from another application.

Yes, sorry that as well, should have included it in my reply.

I personally think there should be a pop up notification when you bring in an image other than by ‘Open’ (which does silently do what you want) similar to what you get when you try to go into Develop persona with an image instead of an RGB pixel layer.

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4 hours ago, summersara said:

I personally think there should be a pop up notification when you bring in an image other than by ‘Open’ ...

I am fairly sure I am not the only user who would find that very annoying! >:(

There are already several indications that a user has added an Image layer, including in the History panel, in the Layers panel, & in the context toolbar when the layer is selected with the Move tool. That should be more than enough, at least after using the app for a while.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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25 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I am fairly sure I am not the only user who would find that very annoying! >:(

Okay, it was just a suggestion, going by the amount times this has come up on these forums. Nothing will come of it, feel free to move on with your life not being annoyed.

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I know it has come up quite a few times in the forum, but the number is small compared both to the number of Affinity products sold (over 2 million) & to the number of people who have created forum accounts (a bit over 100,000). The same is true for the mysterious to some pink/purple/red snapping candidate outlines & for a few other things like tools that by default share the same icon pop-out in the Tools panel.

So overall, I don't think any of these things are so obscure that most users can't figure them out on their own. For those that need a little help with that, these forums usually provide it very quickly, & when needed in a much more personalized, interactive way than what could be built into any app. That in turn also helps build a stronger user community & promotes more feedback & discussion we all can benefit from.

Of course, this is just my opinion. YMMV.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
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1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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I agree with summersara that something has to be done. At the very least, if a certain tool will not work with the layer in it's current form, the tool should either be not selectable or greyed out, or if you attempt to use a tool on the layer it could tell you it's not supported instead of doing NOTHING. This is what I found confusing. It does nothing, leaving you to think that it's broken.

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20 minutes ago, Jeremy Bohn said:

At the very least, if a certain tool will not work with the layer in it's current form, the tool should either be not selectable or greyed out, or if you attempt to use a tool on the layer it could tell you it's not supported instead of doing NOTHING.

OK, but a 'marching ants' selection is not a part of any layer -- in fact, you can create one in a new document with no layers in it --- so there is no way the selection tools that create one could be greyed out & remain useful for all the things marching ants selections can be used for.

And of course, for cutting or deleting Image layers it does do something, just not what the user might expect.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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12 minutes ago, Wosven said:

Perhaps an option* for having one of those annoying error sounds that show everyone around you you did an error :D

How could the app determine if I deleted or cut an Image layer in error or on purpose? :35_thinking:


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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1 minute ago, R C-R said:

if I deleted or cut an Image layer

If you want to delete you hit "Delete", if you cut an image layer: "error sound" (it would be strange, since it's possible we added the image in the wrong document… but it's the least annoying option, and ctrl+z is possible too. I don't like pop up each time I do an error, asking me if I really truly wanted to do this stupid action and if I want to continue on this erronous path…).

If I do an error and nothing happen… or not the expected one, that's because I wasn't carefull enough (it happens a lot when running some shortcuts in the wrong app and having unexpected results as in Outlook, the app with the weirdest shortcuts defying every shortcuts you know in other apps, for example!).

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1 minute ago, Wosven said:

... if you cut an image layer: "error sound" ...

But I may want to cut the selected Image layer, even if there is a marching ants selection. I don't want the app to bother me with an error sound or with a warning message asking me if I really wanted to do that.

I think the problem here is not understanding the difference between a selected object & a marching ants pixel selection.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
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1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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That's why I talked about assigning a shortcut if the real problem is about pixel/image layers.
Ctrl+Shift+Enter, this way, I can do it easily, and it's nearly the same as converting to curves, easy to remember, but harder to do for not doing it by error.

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33 minutes ago, Wosven said:

That's why I talked about assigning a shortcut if the real problem is about pixel/image layers.

Sorry for being so dense about this, but a shortcut for what? The OP was complaining about an entire Image layer being cut. Cut is a standard & frequently used keyboard shortcut, so I'm confused. O.o


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
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1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

OK, but a 'marching ants' selection is not a part of any layer -- in fact, you can create one in a new document with no layers in it --- so there is no way the selection tools that create one could be greyed out & remain useful for all the things marching ants selections can be used for.

And of course, for cutting or deleting Image layers it does do something, just not what the user might expect.

I'd argue that if a person had drawn a selection box and pressed the delete key, that 100% guaranteed the intent was to delete a selection and NOT delete a layer. Pretty dumb if you ask me, that you select part of an image but really what you've selected is the entire layer, all because it's a "smart" layer and not a pixel layer. Photoshop understands this difference with no problem - if nothing is selected in the document, THEN the delete key will delete a layer.

Bottom line - they have to do a better job at differentiating between the 2 types of layers and the tools that apply to each kind.

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1 hour ago, Jeremy Bohn said:

Pretty dumb if you ask me, that you select part of an image but really what you've selected is the entire layer ...

But that is not what you have done. A marching ants selection does not belong to, nor is it a part of, any layer. It just defines an enclosed area on the canvas. This should be obvious because for example, you can make a marching ants selection on a canvas that has no layers at all, & because it does not vanish even after deleting the contents it enclosed on an existing pixel layer.

1 hour ago, Jeremy Bohn said:

Photoshop understands this difference with no problem - if nothing is selected in the document, THEN the delete key will delete a layer.

If nothing is selected how does Photoshop decide which layer to delete? :35_thinking:


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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The purpose of the marquee tool is to select something. What purpose is there in defining a selection NOT attached to any content? Who would define a selection if there are no layers in the document? What is the purpose of an "enclosed area on the canvas" - just something to look at? No, I want to perform some function on it. If I use the marquee tool I expect a selection. If I press delete on a selection, I expect it to delete the selection. Anything other than that is counter-intuitive. In fact, that's really how Affinity Photo works, UNLESS it's not a Pixel layer! As the original poster said, all you have to do is look at how many times this question keeps being asked. Then wonder how many times it's NOT being asked and people just give up.

How does Photoshop decide which layer to delete? Have you ever used Photoshop? There is always a layer selected in Photoshop. If there is a marquee selection on the current layer (highlighted in the Layers panel), then whatever is in that selection is deleted from the layer. If there is no marquee selection, then the current layer is deleted.

R C-R, I appreciate your involvement to many discussions in these forums but it's like there's a gang of several users on here who's goal is to convince everyone that the Affinity way is the only way. You need to understand that many new users are going to be ex-Adobe users and like myself will get very frustrated with how some features appear to be change just for the sake of change. In my case, I bought the app and barely used it because it just seemed like some stuff wasn't working right, so I went back to Photoshop. Turns out, the "pixel layer" was the number one culprit. Luckily down the road I gave the app another chance. Once a user understands the pixel-layer concept then it gets easier, but it STILL to this day trips me up.

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8 minutes ago, Jeremy Bohn said:

The purpose of the marquee tool is to select something.

Yes, but it is not necessarily to select something to delete it, or even to select anything other than an area of the canvas, which may totally empty.

For example, the Assistant in Affinity Photo can be set up to automatically create a new pixel layer & paint on that when the Paint Brush Tool is used & no layer is selected. This works great with marching ants selections for controlling where the paint is applied on the new pixel layer. The marching ants selection can be made using the Freehand Selection, the Marquee, & even the Pen tools in any combination, using the mode, feathering, outline, etc. features to control exactly where the brush will be applied. It is totally non-destructive; the marching ants selection can be reused on another layer; saved as a spare channel; & so on.

This & several other techniques can be used because (once again) a marching ants selection is not a layer selection; it is something completely different from & independent of layer or object selections.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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I appreciate R C-R’s contributions. He always tries to explain how thing apparently work and takes the philosophy of the developer as a starting point (as opposed to some other developer’s philosophy), or so it seems.

I myself don’t have the Adobe legacy and highly value the affinity products. When watching Photoshop tutorials every now and then (the horror!), I get confirmation that Serif has taken the right approach. 

Thanks, R C-R!


Affinity Photo - Affinity Designer - Affinity Publisher | macOS 10.15 Catalina on 8GB MBP13 2013 | macOS 10.15 Catalina on 16GB MBP13 2017

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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Yes, but it is not necessarily to select something to delete it, or even to select anything other than an area of the canvas, which may totally empty.

For example, the Assistant in Affinity Photo can be set up to automatically create a new pixel layer & paint on that when the Paint Brush Tool is used & no layer is selected. This works great with marching ants selections for controlling where the paint is applied on the new pixel layer. The marching ants selection can be made using the Freehand Selection, the Marquee, & even the Pen tools in any combination, using the mode, feathering, outline, etc. features to control exactly where the brush will be applied. It is totally non-destructive; the marching ants selection can be reused on another layer; saved as a spare channel; & so on.

This & several other techniques can be used because (once again) a marching ants selection is not a layer selection; it is something completely different from & independent of layer or object selections.

I understand that, and most of that is even how Photoshop works. My quarrel is with the nature of image vs. pixel layers. There is almost no way to tell the difference in the layer types nor does the app do anything to help you or explain it. I didn't even know about the 2 types until months after I bought Photo. I'm just saying the app needs to do more to explain the differences. You have to look at it from a new user's or ex-photoshopper's point of view - it's completely foreign, yet Affinity does nothing to help.

For example, I seriously thought the Flood Select tool was broken because it did nothing to my image. I even Googled for help and I was apparently doing exactly what I was supposed to do, but it wasn't working. There was no indication of the layer types and that I had to convert the image to pixels. Even the help pages make no mention of this. How hard would it be to make the app tell you that the tool will have no affect when you click on the layer? Something like "The currently selected tool will not work with the current layer until it's converted to pixels" and then offer to convert it.

For the example of creating a selection and then pressing the delete key, the very nature of those steps in that order almost certainly guarantees that the intent is to remove what you have selected. To someone without knowledge of the layer types, the current behaviour would seem to defy logic.

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7 hours ago, R C-R said:

Sorry for being so dense about this, but a shortcut for what?

To rasterize your image so the selected area would be cut as expected (after a ctrl+z to get back your layer).

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