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Language layers for the entire document


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We would like to create our new product catalog in Affinity Publisher.

We are looking for a way to create language layers for the entire document. In this way, different language catalogs can be created from a single file. However, so far we have only managed to create layers for each page.

Is it possible to show or hide layers on all pages at the same time?
Up to now we had used Freehand MX, where there was this possibility.

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Hi Matthias J,

Welcome to the Affinity forums!

Yes, it's requested several times. They also call it "global layers".
Which, by the way,  are not to mix up with layers on Master pages, like some dislikers try to make believe the friends of global layers.

You can do a forums search for "global layers" to dive into the controversial discussion of quite a few threads already.
It sounds to be a work in progress meanwhile ...

 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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But in the meantime, as "global layers" as others are requesting will probably take awhile, you can use Layers (capital L) on a Master Page to get what you want.

On a Master Page, use the menu Layer > New Layer. Then in the Layers panel you can rename that Layer to something meaningful, such as the language name you want to use.

Apply that Master Page to the pages you want it to appear on. To create content in the Layer, on each page,

  1. Select the Layer in the Layers panel, then right-click, and choose Edit Detached.
  2. Add that page's content to the Layer. New items that you add to the page will automatically be placed in that Layer as long as you leave it selected. When done click Finished, and move to the next page.

When you've finished work for that language, go back to the Master Page, and in the Layers panel hide the first language Layer. That will hide it on all the document pages. Then create another Layer for your next language. Repeat.

 

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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3 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

But (...) you can use Layers (capital L) on a Master Page to get what you want.

But ... you won't want use that workaround because it is ... not only cumbersome to "right-click, and choose Edit Detached" for every use of this layer on every single page. It needs a couple of more clicks every time:

1. After detaching the Master layer you need to activate the Layer layer to get access to its content.
(because the Master layer, which you need to detach, always is an empty layer and works more like an envelope to contain other layers underneath only – but no objects like a text frame with a language version for instance)

2. Every time after working in detached mode you need to click the "finish" button, before you can go to another page or layer, where you, of cause, would start to detach first again ...

3. Furthermore, such a "Layer (capital L) on a Master Page" does not transfer its position in the layer panel between other layers, as a real global layer does. Instead you need to move it on every single page to another than its initial position at the layer panels bottom.

Walt, a global layer is totally independent from any page. It exists as kind of document preference, similar to document color swatches. (which, of cause, should not be confused now with global colors). That means, instead of doing a multi-language document in Walts' workaround way it is more efficient to forget about global layers until they become real and do it the old way with copies of your document. (hoping neither layout nor images will have to change for all languages together)

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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2 hours ago, thomaso said:

2. Every time after working in detached mode you need to click the "finish" button, before you can go to another page or layer, where you, of cause, would start to detach first again ...

3. Furthermore, such a "Layer (capital L) on a Master Page" does not transfer its position in the layer panel between other layers, as a real global layer does. Instead you need to move it on every single page to another than its initial position at the layer panels bottom.

2. I'm not sure it's actually necessary to click Finish. I've only done limited experiments with that, but so far it seems as though navigating to a different document page automatically "finishes" the editing operation.

3. You have more experience than I, but if I were laying out such a publication, the standard (invariant) page content would not be overlaying the areas where I would put the language-dependent information. Therefore I would have no need to move the language Layer from its default position in the set of Master Page layers.

So, in my limited experience neither 2 nor 3 is an issue.

Yes, a global layer, if/when Serif gets it implemented might have advantages over what is possible now. But we don't yet know when that capability might come, nor Serif's priorities for implementing new functions. Are global layers, in their priority list, more important or less important than footnotes, for example? Or than support for RTL languages, or vertical layout?

During the possibly long wait, I still believe that using Layers on a Master Page would be more productive than duplicating the entire document content and hoping that none of the "invariant" text needed to be updated in each of the language variants of the document.

So we will have to agree to disagree (or, at least, we will have to disagree :)).

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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39 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I would have no need to move the language Layer from its default position in the set of Master Page layers. 

You would have the need to move the complete Master Layer – including its language Layer layers – on every single page from its bottom position because you would want to have all text above other objects (as background colors, images, graphic decoration etc) which would not be on the master but on the document pages only. But that, Walt, was discussed with you already by others in other threads.

52 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I still believe that using Layers on a Master Page would be more productive than duplicating the entire document content

You rather would not copy the content, you would copy the complete .afpub file and work the other languages into that copied documents. Usually a layout is finished when it comes to start with other languages, so the effort with changing non-textual elements in various layout-files normally is low or not existing. Nonetheless, there are advantages to be able working in one single document of cause.

Walt, what is your motivation, goal or interest to insist in your master page suggestions in all threads about global layers? On one hand you keep mentioning that others have more experience with global layers but on the other hand you still keep resisting to accept that any master page workaround is no substitute to global layers but try to convince or sell that idea again and again. – Is this way of arguing against a need of this feature request your way to ask for information?

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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3 hours ago, thomaso said:

Walt, what is your motivation, goal or interest to insist in your master page suggestions in all threads about global layers? On one hand you keep mentioning that others have more experience with global layers but on the other hand you still keep resisting to accept that any master page workaround is no substitute to global layers but try to convince or sell that idea again and again. – Is this way of arguing against a need of this feature request your way to ask for information?

I might ask what is your motivation to insist that global layers are the only solution that can work? But I won't. I will simply point out that Publisher does not have global layers today, and we have no idea how long it will be before they come. It may be a long time, and undoubtedly even when we get them they won't work as some users wish they would.

People should know of the existing alternative, even if it is a poor alternative when compared with global layers implemented as you'd like them. If they try the approach, and it doesn't work for them, then they can go back to waiting, or making complete copies. But the choice should be the user's choice.

At the time I first mentioned this, in all the discussion about global layers that I had read, no one (that I had seen) had suggested Layers on a Master Page. Not even to say, well, one could use Layers on a Master Page, but that wouldn't work well for the following reasons.

 

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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On 7/25/2019 at 1:59 PM, thomaso said:

Walt, what is your motivation, goal or interest to insist in your master page suggestions in all threads about global layers?

I understood him to simply be suggesting an option of a current workaround. Whether that workaround is helpful to you or anyone else or not, it seems his intent is to be helpful. Walt can correct me if I misread; otherwise, thanks Walt for willing to try. It is very often most welcome.

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Thank you both for your responses. They help me to understand the motivation of arguing and suggesting. – But they also make me aware of a basic misunderstanding of Global Layers in general. Sorry if I sound embarrassing or offending – it is not my intention. My motivation is, to avoid to have ideas spread repeatedly, which lead in a different direction. I try to explain:

408970662_thomasoprofilefotos.jpg.22f2e8872ef54f3aa23022f51f94108f.jpg  "Hi, can I use email here?"
1418265671_waltprofilefotos.jpg.89b2be89ff388d44d94e1a6081429f20.jpg  "Welcome! We don't have email yet but, until then, you can use fax machine."

The feature request for Global Layers is related to a specific workflow only.
It is no function which enables a new design result. Nor is it anything which could not result in the same design with a workaround.

The nature of Global Layers is just speed, efficiency, simplificated workflow. Therefore Global Layers can not become circumvented by a workaround which does not increase working speed. Also, I assume, users who request Global Layers are advanced users, simply because they have efficiency in mind and are used to complex, for instance multi-lingual projects. Therefore those users will be aware of the advantages of Master Pages, too.

Since the Master Page concept is not related to the Global Layer concept and because of its interest for a faster workflow, the suggestion to use Master Pages as a substitute for Global Layers sounds very irritating to me. The Master Page workaround demands a 4 step preparation on each page and each time you switch a page to get able to start with layout work. So it can become quickly a suggestion to slow down the workflow instead of speeding it up. The price of this workaround for being enabled to switch a layers visibility in the complete document with 1 click is very high during its layout process and its disadvantage increases with the number of objects and pages which need to get accessed in the design process several times again.

1456508070_globallayers-masterpgworkaround1.jpg.5e6ac2f52373c249b989e2e5d5f08abe.jpg
64325756_globallayers-masterpgworkaround2.jpg.698a07b9611bdb9a9748a52115241ad4.jpg
1610947213_globallayers-masterpgworkaround3.jpg.c42a1b02f9d3922c3c0bcd490b0a814c.jpg
100573841_globallayers-masterpgworkaround4.jpg.b8abe45475e700b5101f695d0455b0f7.jpg


Whereas with Global Layers ...
315242262_globallayers-startimmediately.jpg.92df18383dd529cb0fc0e94434d64a4f.jpg

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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