Publisher: Inner Bleed for 'All Pages' export

[Satta]

I am designing a book that will be spiral-bound and therefore loose-leaf printed. Consequently the print PDF needs to be exported to 'All pages' (instead of spreads). 

When I set the inner bleed in the document settings and then export the PDF to all pages the inner bleed on the pages ends up being the page content of the facing page. If I have e.g. an image that goes all the way to the spine I have to stretch that image into the facing page in order to create an inner bleed for that page.

I need to be able to seperate the spread in order to create proper bleed for the pages … in inDesign this known as 'Allow Document Pages to Shuffle'. Have I missed something in Publisher or is this indeed not possible in the current version?

I have attached an image to illustrate the issue.

 

[Satta]

Ok, I have found a workaround  for the issue:

Design the book as normal and include the bleed area across the spine for all images/objects (like in the 2nd example above). Before exporting the print file open the Document Settings and untick Facing Pages. Left/right master page properties remain intact. The only issue were images that are going across both pages of a spread – they only appear on one of the two pages after the change and you will have to copy them and paste onto the other page. I hope that makes sense.

Nevertheless, I think the function to 'allow pages to shuffle' and to seperate a spread for loose-leaf printing should be addressed in a future update of Publisher.

[PencilC0re]

Thank you SO MUCH for posting this sollution!

[wonderings]

When setting up for spiral bound or coil bound books you should not work in spreads for this very reason. Spreads is set for saddle stitch books. Sure you can do similar things with images crossing the spread, but it will not be unified and joined like it would be in a saddle stitch book.

I would start in spreads if you have a lot of images that cross from page to page and then go back to single pages when you are done and adjust bleeds accordingly. If you do not have images crossing a spread then the simple solution is to work in single pages with your bleed margins set properly. Standard for N. America would be .125".

[Cyndi]

On 7/10/2019 at 8:26 AM, Satta said:

Ok, I have found a workaround  for the issue:

Design the book as normal and include the bleed area across the spine for all images/objects (like in the 2nd example above). Before exporting the print file open the Document Settings and untick Facing Pages. Left/right master page properties remain intact. The only issue were images that are going across both pages of a spread – they only appear on one of the two pages after the change and you will have to copy them and paste onto the other page. I hope that makes sense.

Nevertheless, I think the function to 'allow pages to shuffle' and to seperate a spread for loose-leaf printing should be addressed in a future update of Publisher.

Thank you Satta! This was the most helpful post I have found for this issue. I also have a book for an online print company that requires the PDF file to have single pages with bleed around each page. The problem is that their software doesn't recognize a left hand or right hand page (for imposition) and therefore centres each one leaving a gap in the gutter and the outer edge. Argh.

"Allow pages to shuffle" may help if there it can extend the image on the inside bleed which is what printers seem to want for their software.

So, I followed your advice and made a new document with single pages. I agree that the spreads that have an image running over 2 pages are tricky as they have to be the exact same size and positioned carefully so they line up when printed.

Thanks again for figuring this out for us. You're a star!

[DiZastor]

Thank you Satta. I've just found this topic. I've been wrestling with this issue for over a year. Your work around solution is great. I'm surprised it's still even an issue in Affinity Publisher 2.

[Gigiga]

I cannot belive I found THIS from 2019 in 2023 to be the solution. The more I do side projects with affinity the more I tend to go back to adobe. THIS is so basic it needs to be in the software from the start. What is so hard about that? Most Books are PUR glue bound these days, especially print on demand products. I know how books are bound in the old fashioned way, and sure a software also needs to address this technique but come on guys really?

[alindsay55661]

On 6/30/2020 at 5:53 AM, wonderings said:

When setting up for spiral bound or coil bound books you should not work in spreads for this very reason. Spreads is set for saddle stitch books.

This is a terrible response. Spreads provide so much UX and cognitive processing value as they clearly illustrate the book reading experience while authoring. If the only "solution" in Affinity Publisher is to remove spreads it forces authors into single page views, missing the experience of the final product. It makes authoring a lot harder and it's not always clear what side of the spread you are on at any particular moment. As the OP requested, facing pages should absolutely allow viewing and editing of inner bleed regardless of the book binding. The editing experience should not be so tightly coupled to the manufacturing process that authors are forced to "not work in spreads"...

Please Serif, don't make us jump through hoops. I have the same issue where the publisher expects full bleed single page exports but I need to author in spreads. I was totally shocked to find it is impossible to do both... now I am forced to author one page at a time which makes my workflow a lot harder. 

[DiZastor]

12 hours ago, alindsay55661 said:

This is a terrible response. Spreads provide so much UX and cognitive processing value as they clearly illustrate the book reading experience while authoring. If the only "solution" in Affinity Publisher is to remove spreads it forces authors into single page views, missing the experience of the final product. It makes authoring a lot harder and it's not always clear what side of the spread you are on at any particular moment. As the OP requested, facing pages should absolutely allow viewing and editing of inner bleed regardless of the book binding. The editing experience should not be so tightly coupled to the manufacturing process that authors are forced to "not work in spreads"...

Please Serif, don't make us jump through hoops. I have the same issue where the publisher expects full bleed single page exports but I need to author in spreads. I was totally shocked to find it is impossible to do both... now I am forced to author one page at a time which makes my workflow a lot harder. 

Satta's work around worked for me. I'm still patiently waiting for Serif to sit up and take notice though!

[Lukaszd]

@Serif

I think this is a big issue when trying to prepare a file for GLUED catalog (or some other print)

I have a data Merge catalog; if I try to apply the fix from Satta some of the product pages disappear (I need to have a left and right page). 

I had to manually change the format for no-bleed (so make the format larger) in order for it to work - it's ridiculous. 

I know it should be like a separate option but still. it took me a full day (before I had binded catalogs and now we have a larger one so we glue it). 

Serif, please, please, please put that on the development list!

[Mark Daniel]

@Satta, @DiZastor The possibility to add a gap between the pages on a facing page spread has been added in the current 2.6 Beta. You might like to try it out and check that it addresses your needs.

Yours,

Mark

 

[Lukaszd]

@Mark Daniel Thanks!

Im testing it right now but I noticed that you have to do it manually spread by spread?

Are you planning to made it globally later on?

Thanks!

[Hangman]

Hi @Lukaszd and welcome to the forums,

You can apply the gap to the Master so all spreads using that Master will include the gap...

[DiZastor]

20 hours ago, Mark Daniel said:

@Satta, @DiZastor The possibility to add a gap between the pages on a facing page spread has been added in the current 2.6 Beta. You might like to try it out and check that it addresses your needs.

Yours,

Mark

 

Thank you Mark. 

I've just been trying it out and think I may not have set my original document up correctly to take advantage of this feature. I am creating a photo calendar where page one is the cover photo and the lower page of a vertical two page spread. Page 2 is the month photo and page 3 the month layout of a complex data merge.

When I do an export to pdf, page 1 comes out as a full size spread in landscape, and pages 2 and 3 come out as a single page in portrait. See attached files.

Satta's work around is still the only way it works for me. After I've done the merge to create and populate all the calendar pages and saved it, I then change document setup as per Satta and get individual pages with individual bleeds around each page (I think I've described that correctly).

So in brief, the inner bleed, in its current format, hasn't worked for me.

Cheers

 

Double A4 calendar merge master beta testing inner bleed.afpub double A4 Calendar Beta 2.6 internal bleed.pdf

[Mark Daniel]

It seems to work for me, he's what I did

* Made a new 2 page facing page master

* In spread properties moved page 2 Y origin down by 6 mm (2 x bleed)

* Added a guide between the pages

* Applied the master to all document pages and conformed the layout

* Tweaked the black rectangle to match the guide

* Data Merge

* Export with 'Include Bleed' and 'All Pages'

Or have I not understood what you're trying to do?

 

Double A4 calendar merge master beta testing inner bleed.afpubtest.pdf

 

[Hangman]

Hi @DiZastor,

@Mark Daniel beat me to it but basically exactly that, i.e., set your Master page up with the gap before running the Data Merge so you won't need to adjust the spread properties for each individual Data Merged Spread after the Data Merge...

[DiZastor]

3 hours ago, Mark Daniel said:

It seems to work for me, he's what I did

* Made a new 2 page facing page master

* In spread properties moved page 2 Y origin down by 6 mm (2 x bleed)

* Added a guide between the pages

* Applied the master to all document pages and conformed the layout

* Tweaked the black rectangle to match the guide

* Data Merge

* Export with 'Include Bleed' and 'All Pages'

Or have I not understood what you're trying to do?

 

Double A4 calendar merge master beta testing inner bleed.afpub test.pdf 2.47 MB · 0 downloads

 

Thank you Mark.

This works. The inner bleed is exactly what I was expecting.

I'm feeling a little out of my depth here... I was just wondering whether this is the correct solution for my situation with wire bound calendars where page 2 is printed on the back of page 1... page 4 on the back of page 3... etc, etc.  But I guess that might be part of the printing supplier's task. 

Thank you again

Cheers