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Jeff McFarland

Resizing text frame using scale handle should scale contents

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When resizing a text frame using the scale handle, it seems as if the text frame doesn't actually scale the contents of the frame. It seems like the frame itself retains a scale percentage that it applies to its contents, but it doesn't actually scale the contents.

This sounds confusing, but if you put some 12pt text in a text frame and use the scale handle to enlarge the size by 200% so the the text in the frame is now 24pt and then you link that frame to a new text frame the 24pt text from the first box will flow into the linked text frame as 12pt type. This is unexpected behavior. If a 24pt paragraph his reflowed into another text box, it should continue to be the same size.

So, the feature request would be for the contents of the text frame to actually be enlarged/reduced when a text frame is scaled so that its contents will remain consistent when flowing into a new box. Just look at your "unnamed" competitor for a better way to handle this behavior.

It doesn't make any sense to me the way it currently works. Adding copy to a text frame that causes text to reflow to a second box produces unexpected results. It's impossible to know which boxes are scaled what percentage, and it should be irrelevant what percentage the boxes are. The contents should be resized.

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Hi Jeff

Have a closer look at the text frame. You'll see two handles/nodes in the bottom right corner.

Moving the inner one will scale/transform the frame only, moving the outer one will also scale the contents of the frame.

Brilliant.

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In my opinion this is logical behavior even if the feature itself is a bit odd and unique in a page-layout application, and personally I do not find much use for frame-based scaling when using text that is linked by multiple frames. But scaling is clearly a frame-based feature so it should only have effect on content that is contained by it. E.g., it would be really odd if scaling of a single text frame e.g. on page 1 should have scaling effect also on linked text frames on other pages.

To make text size globally (story-wise) bigger, it is better to do it e.g. by redefining the underlying style or do it in some other more controllable manner than by using a scaling handle. 

There is one situation where text-frame scaling could perhaps be inherited and it is when you create a new text frame by flowing content from an existing scaled frame to a new frame. But this would probably just add confusion since inheritance is much a cirumstancial property and cannot be readily seen later. 

The whole feature is a bit hazardous, especially as scaling percentage does not seem to be retained as a text frame property. You can see that text size within a frame has been changed if the text is style tagged (by noting that the text has style exceptions), or by checking the constistence of the font size of the body text, but otherwise there does not seem to be any indications on manipulated text frames within frames linked to each other. 

I guess this feature can have a good use in certain specific projects, but it would defnitely be useful to have the scaling percentage saved and shown as a text frame property, or scaled state be shown somehow directly on the text frame itself.

EDIT: In InDesign scaling of a linked text frame is different in a sense that it affects the contained text in a permanent way so that when it is reflowin, it keeps its scaled font size. In Publisher it does not. I do not think that either behavior is "intuitive" by itself, and both behaviors can be useful. But as long as the scaling factor is not shown as text frame property, the InDesign style is probably more logical as it is simply a means to scale the font size and object dimensions interactively (instead of using numerical controls), rather than giving a single text frame a scaling factor.

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Resizing text frame using scale handle should NOT scale contents!

Normal and most used usage is to reshape text container using handles. Text size should be adjusted via styles.

Ability to change shape AND text size as an object is just an extra feature. Sometimes useful but not really bread&butter. Usually it is done with mod key with handle, Publisher has extra handle for it.

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16 minutes ago, Fixx said:

Resizing text frame using scale handle should NOT scale contents!

Normal and most used usage is to reshape text container using handles. Text size should be adjusted via styles.

But there are separate scale handle and text frame resize handles. Using a scale handle is basically just same as using Ctrl+Alt and dragging corner handle in InDesign. Nothing wrong there but it is of course easy to mistakenly drag a wrong handle in Publisher.

EDIT: Sorry, misunderstood your comment. The point is that the features work differently in Publisher and InDesign. In the latter the content is truly scaled / redimensioned, which is shown when the content is reflown. In Publisher the frame only has a scaling factor but the content is not inherently resized. This can be of course confusing but I do not think that there is "right" way to do this.

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3 hours ago, Fixx said:

Resizing text frame using scale handle should NOT scale contents!

But that's what it's defined to do. The scaling handle changes the container size and scales the contents.

If you don't want the contents scaled, don't use the scaling handle.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

But that's what it's defined to do. The scaling handle changes the container size and scales the contents.

Now that depends what you mean by scale handle. I meant using corner point as handle. Maybe corner point handle and scaling handle should have definite different meanings. For OP the difference was also vague.

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4 hours ago, Fixx said:

Now that depends what you mean by scale handle. I meant using corner point as handle. Maybe corner point handle and scaling handle should have definite different meanings. For OP the difference was also vague.

The scaling handle is the detached one, lower and to the right of the bottom right handle on the bounding box.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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