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I love Publisher :) but IMHO it has the worst colour system I have ever seen (in over 30 years). :44_frowning2:
How did LAB, RGB and CMYK end up on the same palette when I only work in CMYK and the publication was set for CMYK? I NEVER work in LAB.

image.png.e9726919ce7d8496615775619abd91b8.png I have 68 colours like this: image.png.08986db0a6608a57b5f4c691371914b4.png"Rick 13-EN_No Photo 2 is the name of the publication. Useless as colour information for an in-document palette.

It should be simple to create my own custom CMYK palette but instead it's horribly complicated, if not impossible. It's a monumental time waster. Why can I change a colour in this dialogue but not in that one. And then I can only change it in THAT dialogue, but not this one. A lot of things seem too clever by half in Publisher but colour handling is a serious fault in an otherwise pretty good app.

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Fully agreed. The best way I have found to stick to CMYK (or any other specific) palette is to create a new app or document palette, and then define any new color by using CMYK fields / sliders, and adding them to the document palette.This way you get at least CMYK based swatch names (but then again, if you create the color as a global color, you get just generic names like "Global Color 4" so to be more informative you need to rename the swatches manually). Unortunately ihe names are not automatically updated if the definitions are changed. One might think that working with PANTONE CMYK-palettes would offer a solution but PANTONE-based color assignments made for objects are not reflected back in swatch highlighting, and when added to the palette, get HLS based definitions. Very frustrating.

For me this is the most urgent fix I wish to see in Affinity apps. 1.x versions do already have an impressive feature list but if handling of colors and palettes is flimsy, credibility as professional (print production) apps cannot be achieved.  

Edit: Rather than creating directly a global swatch from a selected color (and getting a non-informative swatch name like "Global 3"), it is better to first create a regular swatch so that you get CMYK values, and then from the context palette, choose "Make Global" This way you can keep the CMYK values in the Swatch name.

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It is perfectly valid that documents may contain a mix of different color spaces - for example, vector design elements might be in CMYK while photos taken with cameras might be in RGB - and if the designer wants to match a color to something from one of those photos, maybe a frame or something, it might be best to stick with RGB for that color.

The reason is that modern high-end printers will treat colors differently if they are in the different color spaces, and the RGB color space can handle a wider range of colors that cannot be accurately represented in CMYK.

With printers that use more than four colors of ink (HP Indigo digital presses for example), forcing everything to CMYK would actually limit the quality of the final output because colors which are in the photo may be reproducible by the printer but would be lost in the process of preparing the document to be sent to those printers.

If matching a color from an RGB photo, that particular color might need to remain RGB as the printer might handle the RGB differently and give it a slightly different mix of inks when printing than the CMYK would get, so if the document contains a combination of CMYK elements and RGB elements, then a mixture of different colors on the document palette is correct and desirable.

Some of those presses (again using the example of the HP Indigo) can also mix in specialized spot color inks that would also need to be included in the document, for metalic or other effects to be added to the final document, so it is not just CMYK and RGB either.

 

While it might be a nice option to be able to configure a document palette such that all colors added to it are forced to the document color space, the flexibility of being able to mix color spaces is a good thing in general and adds the flexibility of being able to prepare documents for those high-end output devices.

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1 hour ago, fde101 said:

While it might be a nice option to be able to configure a document palette such that all colors added to it are forced to the document color space, the flexibility of being able to mix color spaces is a good thing in general and adds the flexibility of being able to prepare documents for those high-end output devices.

Flexibility is another matter, all professional layout programs must be able to handle multiple color spaces, but there needs to be consistency and predictability, and ease of use when handling color palettes and different color spaces, modes and definition models. There is no point in forcing a single color space for color definitions and palettes (e.g. based on document color mode), but it should be possible to easily see the original (designer-defined, or imported) color definitions used, and convert color swatches from one color space or mode to another in a controlled manner (governed by the document color profile) already at workflow level, if desired (and not just when producing for a specific target); or see how colors are used in the document and remove the non-used swatches, etc. 

Auto-updating (by user's choice) color swatch names, controlled generation of document palettes with swatch names showing meaningful color values, ability to keep assigned PANTONE swatch assignments as object attributes and add them in the document/app palette, and more informative way of handling tints would be a welcome addition, and something that there will certainly be also in Affinity apps, sooner or later.These kinds of features just add information and usability, and have nothing to do with forcing the designer to use the narrowest possible color gamut (determined by the main document target and device limitations). 

Sam's post was just one example of problems encountered if and when the designer wants to work consistently with the color. Part of the complexity may be explained by the necessity to switch between "Personas" (Photo, Designer, Publisher), so I fully understand that there are some color issues at this point. But mixed color spaces are handled fluently by all professional page layout applications so having RGB (defined with multiple models like Lab, RGB, HLS, Hex, etc), CMYK, spot colors, and tints mixed in one and the same document palette and seeing predictable results (not just for CMYK colors but for wide-gamut colors like PMS colors) on the screen while also seeing the underlying color definitions at a glance and maintaining full control of the document colors -- is itself nothing new.

 

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Flexibility is nice and so is having various colour spaces available. The key problem I have is useability.  I really don't have a mental construct of how the colour tools work in Publisher and there appears to be no good explanation available. I guess I got spoiled using InDesign. :241_scorpion:

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If this flexibility results in faults, for instance ...

... different CMYK values in "Swatches Panel" versus "Color Panel" for the predefined HSL swatches of the palette "Colors"
... different color spaces & values for the predefined swatches of the palette "Greys" in "Swatches Panel" versus "Color Panel": K-only versus 4-c
... different vivid color appearance between an object's CMYK fill versus the same as swatch in "Swatches Panel"
... output/export of K-only as 4-c
... converting K-only into 4-c when handling different color profiles between document and resource

then I really rather prefer bit less flexibility.
And more usability.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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On 6/27/2019 at 2:35 AM, SamSteele said:

Flexibility is nice and so is having various colour spaces available. The key problem I have is useability.  I really don't have a mental construct of how the colour tools work in Publisher and there appears to be no good explanation available. I guess I got spoiled using InDesign. :241_scorpion:

Part of the problem may of course be that we expect Affinity apps to behave identically with Adobe apps. For me the way to simulate this behavior (and aim at consistency) is creating first a document (or app) palette and then define colors by using the Color control (detached apart from other color controls so that it is easier to add colors to document palette). Here I can choose from the drop-down list the color mode(l) as RGB, RGB Hex, HSL, CMYK, Lab, or Grayscale. The mode(l) that is chosen and values that are entered will subsequently be transferred to the document palette as swatch names, when I click the "Add fill (or stroke) to palette" button on the Swatches control, and have color assignments that stick with the objects as permanent color attributes (also across Affinity apps / Personas). 

It is possbile to add PMS colors similarly in the document palette but it is a bit clumsy as you need to first select the PMS palette (e.g., Pantone Solid Coated v2, etc.), pick the PMS entry, then switch back to document palette and click "Add fill (or stroke) to palette". There is also probably a bug that causes that an object that was selected when the PMS color was picked does not actually get the PMS color as an object attribute but instead its equivalent HLS color value, until you re-assign the PMS color by clicking the swatch in the document palette. (Other color definitions "stick" with the object without needing to re-assign the color.)

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I just discovered that "Global" colours are the only type of colours where if you change the spec of an already used colour, say add a bit of cyan, all the objects carrying that "Global" colour will change accordingly. Global colours seem to be specific to a document and are not "global" in the sense of being universal to all documents or all the affinity apps at that point in time. Exporting a palette of Global colours  does make them available for other documents or apps via "import palette".

I would have used the term "linked colour", "coupled colour" or better still "Editable Colour".

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>I would have used the term "linked colour", "coupled colour" or better still "Editable Colour".

I suppose the term "Global" is picked from Adobe Illustrator, and the behavior is pretty much identical. It would be nice if editing of color values would be reflected also in the swatch name, as in Illustrator.

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12 hours ago, Lagarto said:

It would be nice if editing of color values would be reflected also in the swatch name, as in Illustrator.

Indeed.

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