Colour management on Mac

[Pubcrawler]

The print dialog box on my iMac 5k, running Mojave, fails to show a Colour Management section, which I take to be a bug. I'm getting terrible results, presumably because, as far as I can see, there's nowhere for me to tell Publisher what paper I'm printing to. I can select my paper in Print Settings but that's for my printer (Epson R2880). The application also needs to know.

As I understand it, courtesy of a screenshot Chris26 provided in the forum, the print dialog should show something like this:

Instead I get:

.

No Colour Management. Is it somewhere else?

Without colour management, Publisher isn't much use to me.

 

[fde101]

The Mac operating system has built-in color management which provides most of the required functionality.  Most of these color management features are already part of the OS-provided and printer/driver-provided functionality.

The options in that print popup are divided into three parts: the top part is provided by the application ("Range and Scale", etc.), the middle part by the OS ("Layout", etc.), and the bottom part by the printer driver ("Print Settings", etc.), so the top part will vary depending on the application you are using, and the bottom part based on the printer that is selected, but the middle part is fairly consistent between applications and printers.

The primary color management choices are actually in Publisher's document setup (not the print dialog) to set the color space information for the document (and I believe paper type standards relevant to color management are rolled into that selection), and in the OS-provided "Color Management" section of the print dialog, which allows you to select the color profile to use for the printer.

As you pointed out, selecting a paper type is a function of the print driver, and it will vary from printer to printer.

 

9 hours ago, Pubcrawler said:

No Colour Management.

It is right under "Layout" in the popup menu in your screenshot.

[Pubcrawler]

You've provided the most detailed explanation yet, fde101, for which I thank you. It's possible my Photoshop, inDesign and Lightroom apps (all final non-subscription versions) have obsolete dialog boxes.

But in Publisher, in the Layout section of the Print dialog, I don't see an option for Colour Management:

 

There are other colour settings in different areas, so I wonder if you could follow along with me here, to see if my choices make sense:

1. I decide to print using Epson's Ultra Premium Presentation Matte. Starting with Document Setup, I set the colour profile like this:

(It occurs to me Publisher may mean something here other than a profile for the paper.)

2. In Color Matching, in the Print dialog box, I choose Epson Color Controls:

And in Print Settings, again in the Print dialog, I choose Ultra Premium Presentation Matte and tell the printer, an Epson 2880, not to manage the colour:

The only problem is that the resulting print looks horrible. Something is wrong. The magentas are lacking and that blues have gone a bit green and dark. Strangely, when I set nothing in the assorted boxes, and let the printer assume I was printing on plain laser paper (but used UP Presentation Matte) the result was out pretty much bang on. The catch being that the printer insists on 720dpi with plain paper.

I much appreciate any thoughts. Sorry for the size of the boxes, by the way. They grow in size when I drag them into this site's posting area.

 

 

[Chris26]

What are the options under that US letter dialogue where it says COLOUR MATCHING (I see it's american they can't spell colour correctly)

Secondly What are the options in that dialogue underneath Media settings where it now says again.....COLOUR?

The fact that you are gettig wrong colours is a certain tell tale signal that there are conflicting messages between printer and application.  This can be easily solved.  I did years of printing with the epson 3800 and the r2880 is not so bad either.  But I am not familiar with the above dialogue in those settings so tell me the options you have.

Media type and no colour adjustment is a good start, I am worried by the Epson Colour Controls and colour matching dialogue, what options there.  

Basics of colour management (Apart from a calibrated monitor, which is not important right now) are these:

1 Media type selection selected always from a "Printer Profile" drop down menu, in your menu it might well be that "colour profile" dialogue.

2 No colour management in printer

3 Colour profile should be either sRGB but in your case Adobe RGB 1998 assuming your image was edited n this space, and I believe the r2880 can print 16 bit? The epson 3800 certainly can.  EDIT, sorry, ambiguity.  The colour profile will be selected in your application. NOT in the printer diaogue.  There is often a lack of consistency in terminology in the printer industry with these terms.

4 Let application manage colour

5 Colour Matching should I believe be COLOUR SYNC not EPSON CONTROLS by the way

 

Let me know how you fair with all this.

 

[Pubcrawler]

Hi Chris26,

First, your observation that I should be using ColorSync is correct. And you seem to have solved the problem right there!

But just in case,  I'll try to answer your questions.

As above, here are the options under Colo(u)r Matching:

The pop-ups are self-explanatory, with the Presets merely offering a way to save the different settings.

Here are the options for Color, under Media Type:

When I've selected Epson Color Controls:

(Advanced B&W Photo is essential for B&W printing)

When I've selected ColorSync:

The colo(u)r options are greyed out because ColorSync default the profile to Automatic.

As an aside, the world of profiles isn't helped by the fact there are paper profiles and printer profiles, and dialog(ue) boxes usually don't specify. Also, Publisher's term "Colour Format" seems to mean colour space. And where is ProPhoto RGB?

You are right that the R2880 can print 16 bit (and ProPhoto) but I get the impression that while 16 bit or better is the way to go in editing, 8- bit is fine for printing.

I agree with your point 4, Let application manage colour. I seem to be doing that, but in Publisher where is that option? All I can think is that by choosing ColorSync (and greying out the colour settings) I am preventing the printer from managing colour.

Thanks again.

BTW in Canada we are pretty flexible on spelling. Color/colour are both okay here. I'm a Brit expat so prefer 'colour' but when I'm dealing with computer stuff I tend to use American because that's the way of most software in NA.

[Chris26]

1 hour ago, Pubcrawler said:

As an aside, the world of profiles isn't helped by the fact there are paper profiles and printer profiles, and dialog(ue) boxes usually don't specify. Also, Publisher's term "Colour Format" seems to mean colour space. And where is ProPhoto RGB?

You are right that the R2880 can print 16 bit (and ProPhoto) but I get the impression that while 16 bit or better is the way to go in editing, 8- bit is fine for printing.

I agree with your point 4, Let application manage colour. I seem to be doing that, but in Publisher where is that option? All I can think is that by choosing ColorSync (and greying out the colour settings) I am preventing the printer from managing colour.

Hi there, well firstly good, I suspected that coloursync was what needed to be selected here..  ProphotoRGB is not an option neither in doc set up nor preferences - colour settings.  I would like to offer my experences here, ProPhotoRGB is indeed a much wider colour space, larger gamut if you like, but unless you have a very expensive screen it will not be worth editing in that space.  Also, there is a lot of hype about this space, unless you can print on a 12 ink printer in 16 bit the prophoto is not worth worrying about.  There is very little difference in the final output between AdobeRGB 1998 and Prophoto in 'most' images, needless to say that some images with extreme tonalty in colours would benefit.  As long as you edit in 16 bit and save that image, make a duplicate and then change it to 8 bit for printing if you wish, personally I would send the image to the printer always as 16 bit if you have that option and if the image is full of colour and tonal ranges.  There is a huge gain in editing in 16 bit rather tha 8 bit, no matter the type of image trust me on that one.  One last point if you are editing in 8 bit then sticking it in prophoto is pointless, also, if your camera has captured images in JPEG, then again, it is pointless to assign the prophotoRGB space, one can not take a small number of  tonal ranges captured in 8 bit or JPEG's standard RGB and upgrade it to thousands of tonal ranges in a higher gamut. if you get my meaning.  If you capture in Raw format then yes, all this is possible because RAW is not a colour space and is not defined within any gamut at all.  But remember, most standard screens can not display ProphotoRGB so you won't see the differences.

In the print dialogue that I showed you in that screen shot, further down here under colour management.

 

[Pubcrawler]

I'm with you, Chris. I'd never edit in 8-bit. I always shoot raw (usually even on iPhone). I'm still doing most of my editing in pre-subscription Lightroom, sometimes Photoshop. I export from Lightroom as PSD, 16-bit and Adobe (1998). My suspicion is that my screen is capable of a greater gamut than my printer, but in any event I'm happy with the 1998 colour space. At your suggestion, I'll try printing at 16 bit some time although I've not seen banding at 8 bit.

Thanks again.

[fde101]

On 6/26/2019 at 7:28 PM, Pubcrawler said:

My suspicion is that my screen is capable of a greater gamut than my printer,

this is usually the case

 

On 6/26/2019 at 7:28 PM, Pubcrawler said:

I've not seen banding at 8 bit

this is likely due to dithering - at 300dpi+ the individual dots are quite tiny and hard to notice

[Pubcrawler]

Strangely I have found that printing 8-bit on coarse screen laser also shows no banding.