Publisher "keep with next paragraph" missing?

[a-p-s]

I've just been trying out a longer book project with the latest version of Affinity Publisher. Might have missed something, but I haven't found any way of keeping a headline together with the next paragraph by setting ""keep with next paragraph" on the headline paragraph format (there is only "keep with previous", which isn't really helpful).

As this is, I guess, a pretty basic functionality and it's hard to believe it's not there: could someone point me to the right place to set this option?

Thanks.

[Old Bruce]

What is it you are trying to achieve? I might just be a bit thick but I don't see how the next paragraph wouldn't follow ... Do you want them both in a particular place  or Frame on the Page... Is this a problem with Text Wrap messing things up somehow?

[a-p-s]

Maybe I wasn't clear. My goal is pretty simple: I have paragraph styles for a heading and for the normal body paragraph that follows the headline.

What I want to achieve is that there are no breaks in between the headline and body paragraph. Specify keep with preceding paragraph on the body style won't work here.

Hope that makes it clearer.

[thomaso]

A change of style within 1 paragraph and no line break in between? – Wouldn't it be a character style then?

[Old Bruce]

Do you have the Space Before and the Space After both set to 0 and and the Use Space Before set to Always? This is in the Spacing section not the Flow section. 

[Wosven]

Did you add "1" in the last option? Seems to be the needed option to  have the text following the other paragraph in the next column, for example.

[a-p-s]

First of all, thanks everyone for their extremely quick responses!

To clarify, I have attached a screenshot. It show on the right hand sides the settings for the heading style (defined as a style). 

It is about two paragraph styles (heading and body). I want to avoid breaks between a heading and the subsequent body paragraph. I also need the spacing before and after (and setting it to 0 hasn't changed anything). 

The "last lines" option (tried that before) does not work - and as far as I understood, this is for lines in the same paragraphs, not about subsequent paragraphs. But I might be wrong - just started using Affinity Publisher.

[Wosven]

Read again my previous post and screenshot

(your options are for the wrong paragraph style, your headline = my intertitre)

[edit] Unless Abstande mean Headline, but the headline/intertitre was behaving -- following the next paragraph --  for me after setting this line to 1 [/edit]

Edited June 22, 2019 by Wosven
Comment

[thomaso]

It appears to me that these Flow Options do not apply when the text frame has style [None] assigned. I would expect it to work like other settings do work even with style [None], like spacing, justification, drop caps etc. – Any idea what prevents flow options to work with style [None]?

[a-p-s]

 @Wosven: My Headline style is called "Name" (confusing I know, but that's copied from the actual project where this makes sense ). So I have indeed the setting on the headline, which is your "intertitre".

Weird why this works for you, but not for me...

[a-p-s]

8 minutes ago, thomaso said:

It appears to me that these Flow Options do not apply when the text frame has style [None] assigned. I would expect it to work like other settings do work even with style [None], like spacing, justification, drop caps etc. – Any idea what prevents flow options to work with style [None]?

I am not too sure what you mean by "Text frame style".

Paragraph styles are assigned to both.

[Old Bruce]

2 hours ago, a-p-s said:

It is about two paragraph styles (heading and body). I want to avoid breaks between a heading and the subsequent body paragraph. I also need the spacing before and after (and setting it to 0 hasn't changed anything). 

Does this work?

head.afpub

Pay attention to the Spacing of the two styles. You may want to move the space from before the heading to the end of the body style instead.

2 hours ago, a-p-s said:

I want to avoid breaks between a heading and the subsequent body paragraph. I also need the spacing before and after (and setting it to 0 hasn't changed anything). 

Forget flow options, they are for breaking out of a text frame or a column or starting on a particular left right page.

[thomaso]

2 hours ago, a-p-s said:

I am not too sure what you mean by "Text frame style".

Paragraph styles are assigned to both.

I mean both: paragraph and/or character style.

And my question was rather to @Wosven, who made it work for me with his hint of being aware about the selected style in Flow Options.
I still want to understand why this same setting for flow options does not work for a text frame with the [None] style.

[thomaso]

4 hours ago, a-p-s said:

I want to achieve is that there are no breaks in between the headline and body paragraph

53 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Does this work?

head.afpub

@a-p-s,

– Do you want to achieve a break but to influence its position at the end of a column or frame only, as shown by Wosven?
– Or do you want less space between Head and Body paragraphs as Old Bruce layouted?
– Or do you want no breaks as I assumed with my character style hint above?

 

 

[a-p-s]

@thomaso Thanks for your explanation. 

What I want to achieve it that a heading without any following body paragraph line is taken to the next page/column (so avoid an orphan headline). In the screenshot, I would expect that the third Headline appears at the top of the second page/column as there is not sufficient space for more than one line of the body paragraph.

I don't want to modify the spacing between paragraphs.

Assigning some character styles doesn't change anything, btw.

[Fixx]

This is what you are looking for:

[Wosven]

11 hours ago, thomaso said:

And my question was rather to @Wosven, who made it work

That's strange since the only "real" style was the "intertitre" one, the body text was set to [none].

(And it was an example to show the headline following the next paragraph, to avoid headline at the bottom of a column, or begining at the bottom of one and ending at the top of the next one. Usually I would play with the text and illustrations to have full columns of text and avoiding headers at the bottom or top of columns.)

[Wosven]

3 hours ago, a-p-s said:

a heading without any following body paragraph line is taken to the next page/column

It should be this way with those setting in your example. Did you only modify localy (using the Paragraph panel) one of your headline (and not the last one), forgetting to update the general Paragraph style?

[thomaso]

Apparently the setting must be different for the two styles.
For me it works if I set the body to 0 and the head to 1.
No checkbox activated.

 

I still wonder why it seems not to work with 1 setting for ALL text.
Then the numbers 0, 1 or even 100 seem not to influence the result at all – and the check-boxes react different than expected.
A most weird result I don't understand: What forces here the column break before the last line of the 1st paragraph?

 

 

[Wosven]

When you do this (applying those options on 1 of your 2 frames), there's a conflict between styles and different options between frames. 

On such error in ID, all the text would disappear (all paragraphs staying together in the overflow part since they can't be together in the same frame). How can you have all the paragraphs together in the same frame if it's not of sufficient height to contains them?

Prhaps at some point the last valid rule is kept and the other are ignored.

Applying this type of rule to a frame don't seems usefull. I would apply rules to specific paragraph styles (mainly because I need standardized styles applied and knowing how they should interact, usually with the same set of rules for headers, different ones for body, etc.).

Perhaps APub should handled user's errors in a different way: all text should disappear if you set the rule "keep paragraphs together" when there's not enough room in a frame. But it can be confusing (it happens when I set no-breaking rule to some paragraph in ID by error, and it's always a pain to correct: enlarging the frame, selecting and disabling no-break style, etc.).

 

On your example, the last rule applied seems to be "keep with previous paragraph"+"keep paragraph together" => the last line of the paragraph in Frame_1 run away with the other paragraphs to Frame_2

[edit] I suppose rules are applied one after the other, and this is the result. [/edit]

[Old Bruce]

We are way out in the weeds here but I seem to recall a situation where I had to apply some sort of over-ride in a long paragraph to keep the text in one a frame.

[MikeW]

34 minutes ago, Wosven said:

But it can be confusing (it happens when I set no-breaking rule to some paragraph in ID by error, and it's always a pain to correct: enlarging the frame, selecting and disabling no-break style, etc.).

Use the Story Editor in ID. All text is available in it. Easy to correct such things.

[a-p-s]

3 hours ago, thomaso said:

Apparently the setting must be different for the two styles.
For me it works if I set the body to 0 and the head to 1.
No checkbox activated.

 

That indeed solves the problem - too stupid of me that I didn't try this out. Thanks!

[Wosven]

2 hours ago, MikeW said:

Use the Story Editor in ID

Thanks! (the last time I wanted to show it to a co-worker, I wasn't able to find it... I tested it when begining with the app, and mostly forget about it. I'll try next time.)

[Wosven]

The checkboxes are usefull to keep long headers together, or when dealing with questions in interview, that can be long and sometimes we can't avoid having one begining at the bottom of a column and ending at the top of the next one (keeping 2 lines together).

 

The problem with using "keep with previous paragraph" for body text, is it prevent you to have a paragraph ending at the bottom of a column and the next one at the top of the next column. (unless it's a sort of "one paragraph only body text").