Consecutive Numbering in Text Styles

[Irene_C]

Hi

I'd like the following structure:

1. Bla Bla (Text style: heading 1)
1.1 Bla Bla (Text style: heading 2)
1.2 Bla Bla (Text style: heading 2)
2. Bla Bla (Text style: heading 1)

and so on. However, I got some problems achieving this.. I have attached my settings (in German, sorry). The result ist:

1. Bla Bla
1. Bla Bla
0.1. Bla Bla

Thanks for your advice!

[David H]

Irene, I have exactly the same issue and I spent 5 hours today watching the tutorial videos and trying every conceivable combination of settings and I gave up.If it can be done, and surely it must, I failed. It's such a basic requirement for a document / report.

Help!!

[walt.farrell]

The built-in Numbered 1 style will do that for you automatically.

Just assign that paragraph style, and type some text. It will be, for example

1. My text.

Press Enter and you'll get a line numbered

2.

Press Tab, and it will become

1.1 where you can type your next level of text.

If you press enter you'll get

1.2 and can type another line at that level, or you can press tab to get

1.1.1 instead of 1.2

To back out, press the reverse Tab.

[Irene_C]

Thanks for your reply, Walt. I know that, but I need consecutive numbers in different fields for my headlines. Example:

Page 1: 
H1, "1. HEADLINE"

Page 3:
H2, "1.1 HEADLINE"

Page 5:
H1, "2. HEADLINE"

Page 5:
H2 "2.1 HEADLINE"

...

[walt.farrell]

4 hours ago, Irene_C said:

Thanks for your reply, Walt. I know that, but I need consecutive numbers in different fields for my headlines. Example:

Page 1: 
H1, "1. HEADLINE"

Page 3:
H2, "1.1 HEADLINE"

Page 5:
H1, "2. HEADLINE"

Page 5:
H2 "2.1 HEADLINE"

...

Thanks. That wasn't clear.

For that, I have only two suggestions, as they are the only ways I can think of. Perhaps another user or someone from Serif will know something better.

The old-fashioned way: Do it all manually. If you've been adding other text between the H1 and H2 then I doubt there's any way the program will keep track of the numbering properly. But I could be surprised; maybe I just haven't found it yet.

What should work:

1. Define your H1 style as based on Numbered 1, and your H2 as based on Numbered 2. But set H1 as having a Next Level of H2, rather than Numbered 2.
2. Select the H1style, and type your first headline (will be 1.), pressing Enter when done.
3. Immediately after, press Tab and type your H2 headline (will be 1.1). Press Enter.
4. Press back-Tab, type your next H1 headline (will be 2.). Press Enter.
5. Press Tab, type your H2 headline (will be 2.1). Press Enter.
6. Continue like that until your headlines are entered.

Basically, create the outline of headings first, so Publisher can keep track of the numbering and levels properly. Then you go back and enter the appropriate text between the headings.

 

[Dave Harris]

Do two things. First, change the Restart numbering rule from Any Non List to Below Current Level. The default first option restarts the numbering after any paragraph that isn't a list, which is convenient if you have blocks of consecutive numbered lists but isn't what you want for numbered headings.

Then give the list a name like Heading. All lists with the same name use the same counters. Given the headings their own list name will give them their own counters separate to any other lists in the same story. All levels of a multi-level list should use the same name, so you shouldn't use the name of the style. So both H1 and H2 styles should set the list name to Heading, with H1 using Level: 1 and H2 using Level: 2, and the H2 Text set to include both \1 and \2.

If the headings aren't all in the same linked story, then tick the Global box next to the Name too. This is useful for things like auto-numbered figure captions.

I hope this helps.

[GarryP]

I’ve managed to get that to work but I needed to do quite a bit of fiddling about with various settings from how I had them. I managed to eventually get what I need by pressing the “Restart Numbering Now” check box on different styles but I have no idea what it’s supposed to do or what, precisely, I did to get it all working in my document. I just kept changing options one by one until it looked right.

Dave, is there any chance that the documentation in the Help could be a bit better in 1.7.2 than what I get in 1.7.1 (see attached)?

[Patrick Connor]

@Jon P please report this in JIRA to @acapstick

[Jon P]

@GarryP Out of curiosity did you open that file directly from the install directory? It was commented out of the index so shouldn't be searchable.

I have, however, noticed that the file itself was removed from en-GB but not other languages. I'll get this corrected and speak with docs about getting this added for 1.7.2, apologies.

[Irene_C]

I still can't figure this out, sorry. My h1's all starting with 1 and my h2's are not referring to them (it's always 0.1, 0.2 ...)

In my opinion a setting like that should be easier to achieve in a publisher software. I'm going to do it manually - I already spent too much time with that.

 

[David H]

Irene this is exactly where I got to as well.

This is far too complex / obtuse for DTP software and VERY frustrating. At the very least the logic in the settings is flawed. This needs work guys and fixing urgently - it's such a basic document requirement.

 

[GarryP]

@Jon P Here’s the workflow to get the page I mentioned earlier:
* menu Help → Affinity Publisher Help;
* click in Search box;
* enter text ‘num’ (without quotes);
* click ‘numbered’ from the drop-down;
* click on the link for ‘Numbering’ (first item on list in main panel).

I’m using Windows 10 in the UK but my language was set to “English (United States)”.  When I switched language to “English (United Kingdom)” the ‘Numbering’ link is no longer there in the list on the main panel after selecting ‘numbered’ from the drop-down. However, there’s now no obvious link to paragraph numbering on that list at all so that might need changing. I.e. People might think they wanted a ‘numbered’ list rather than searching for ‘numbering’ but when searching for ‘numbered’ they don’t get anything that mentions paragraph numbering specifically.

The “Bullets and Numbering” section in the Paragraph Panel page of the help is remarkably sparse in detail and instruction for functionality that’s so important in DTP. It looks like a very capable function but its usefulness is very much obscured by the lack of information given to the user. Some of the options are fairly obvious but others are not explained at all, e.g. Restart numbering (now), Name and Global. These things might be totally obvious to the developer but a user coming to these things from a standing start – especially if they have not used software with the same nomenclature – will not have a clue what they are for or how they should be used, either individually or together.

It looks like the bullets and numbering functions could have a boat-load of really great uses but if they’re not explained well – and the user has to repeatedly experiment to get near what they want – then people will simply give up and complain that the functionality is not there. All it needs is a single page that gives some good, well-described examples of how to set-up some of the most-needed use cases – like the example above. Once people have a starting point they can experiment to take things further if they wish. If people don’t have the starting point and have to fumble around in the dark by themselves they will only get more and more confused and frustrated (as evidenced by the comments from Irene_C and David H above).

Publisher is packed full of really great functionality but, partly because of all that great functionality, it can be difficult to learn how all of the options and features work (and work together). It would be a real shame if people eschewed Publisher just because the Help was inadequate/confusing when they only wanted to do something simple.

To try and put my argument into a more commercially-relevant picture for Serif, think about what software reviewers, bloggers and – perhaps more importantly – software evaluators in large organisations will be doing when they first get Publisher (and the other Affinity products). They only have a limited amount of time to see what the software can do and if they can’t quickly get to grips with something basic – such as numbered paragraphs – they will be far less likely to recommend the software to others. Imagine if Irene_C or David H were evaluating the software for an organisation or a magazine review. What do you think they would be telling their bosses or readers? And what do you think their bosses or readers would do with that information?

The Affinity products are fantastic bits of software that are gaining more traction with users but it would be terrible if Serif was missing out on more sales simply because the Help files were not helpful enough (not just for bullets and numbering, a lot of other sections are also sparse and not as helpful as they could be).  Make the help more helpful and the users will thank you for it.

All said though, that’s just the opinion of this one user. I could be right or I could be wrong but, in this case, I believe I have a relatively decent argument (which I might not have put forward as well as I should have).

[jmwellborn]

@GarryP is quite right about the HELP issue.   The solution is simple, but a bit time consuming.  The  HELP section on “Linking Text Frames”  is excellent.  The “Numbering” example is the opposite.   Many years ago, the CEO of a major Foundation remarked that extremely intelligent people very often explain things in far too little detail because they don’t want to seem to be “talking down to” or “patronizing” others.  But what they often don’t remember is that each person learns in a different way, and that more is always better than less.  I strongly suspect that because the Affinity developers so thoroughly grasp what these remarkable apps can do, they unconsciously presume that we do too.  Hopefully they will have some time to expand the HELP. 

[GarryP]

I tried to do this again in a completely new document and it’s just not working properly for me this time (see attached AFPUB file).

• I have two Heading styles: Heading 1 and Heading 2.
• Heading 1 has Level set to 1 (or No Change) and Next Level set to Heading 2.
• Heading 2 has Level set to 2.
• They both have Restart Numbering set to Below current Level.
• They both use a Name of Heading and that Name is set to be Global in both.

I think I’ve followed Dave Harris’ instructions but I just can’t get the numbering to work over multiple paragraphs/frames (see attached image).

I could be doing something wrong or missing something but it really shouldn’t be this difficult to set-up paragraph numbering.

paragraph numbering.afpub

[Dave Harris]

Your Heading 2 style has the list Text set to "\#.\#.". If you change it to "\1.\2.", it should do what you expect.

\1 means the number of the list level 1, and \2 means the number of list level 2. The \# expands to the number of the current list level, so using that twice you get the same number twice each time. \# is useful for nested lists like:

1. aa
   1. bb
   2. cc
2. dd

where the number of the current level is all you want, and it lets you increase the level (eg, by pressing <TAB> at the start of the line) without having to edit the list Text, so that's why it is the default.

[GarryP]

Dammit. I thought I had that sorted early on. I applied your fix and it works.
Okay, I’m going to try the exercise again, from scratch, and try to see where I went wrong the last time.

[GarryP]

My next run-through worked, hooray, (see attached image and file) but I had to close the document and re-open before the paragraphs in the non-linked text frame were given the correct numbers. The numbering restarted at 1 in that frame and refused to do anything else no matter what I tried until I closed/re-opened, upon which the numbering continued (as expected) at 3 (now 4 in the image/file because I added extra stuff to see if the numbering really kept up with the changes).

This sounds like a bug to me. I shouldn’t have to close/re-open a document to get it to work.

This problem could be one of the causes of some other people’s complaints. They might have done everything right but they just don’t see it because they haven’t closed/re-opened the document. That might cause people to think it doesn’t work and to abandon the whole idea.

I’ll certainly be keeping an eye on this as I have a user guide to write where the sections can be rearranged on a whim.

paragraph numbering 2.afpub

[GarryP]

I’ve reported a bug for this issue here: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/91974-paragraph-numbering-sometimes-needs-document-closere-open-to-display-properly/

[Ralph]

On 7/2/2019 at 2:24 PM, jmwellborn said:

@GarryP is quite right about the HELP issue.   The solution is simple, but a bit time consuming.  The  HELP section on “Linking Text Frames”  is excellent.  The “Numbering” example is the opposite.   Many years ago, the CEO of a major Foundation remarked that extremely intelligent people very often explain things in far too little detail because they don’t want to seem to be “talking down to” or “patronizing” others.  But what they often don’t remember is that each person learns in a different way, and that more is always better than less.  I strongly suspect that because the Affinity developers so thoroughly grasp what these remarkable apps can do, they unconsciously presume that we do too.  Hopefully they will have some time to expand the HELP. 

So true about experts expecting mere mortals to have instant understanding of obscure concepts! Conversely, they also seem to find the need to explain simple concepts in excruciating detail. Having said that, "multilevel bullets" ought to be a simple concept. I suspect it's not just that they expect understanding from their inferiors, they also don't entirely understand it themselves. The solution has come in a eureka moment which they cannot extract from the subconscious brain.

There's so much brilliant content that I can't understand that I keep backing out to PagePlus!  Is there a YouTube yet moderators??

[walt.farrell]

3 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Is there a YouTube yet moderators??

Why not look for yourself? Help from Publisher has a link to Tutorials. There are only 47 of them, and looking through their titles takes just a few moments to find, e.g., this one.

Whether it will address complex cases like those @GarryP has, or only the simpler cases (sequential numbered or bulleted lists, possibly multi-level) I don't know.

6 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Having said that, "multilevel bullets" ought to be a simple concept.

It is a simple concept, for simple cases:

1. Choose the Bullet 1 Paragraph Style. You get a paragraph that starts with a bullet.
2. Type your text; press Enter to end the paragraph. You get a new paragraph with the same kind of bullet.
3. If you need a nested level of bullet, press Tab. You get a level 2 bulleted paragraph.
4. Keep typing level 2 bulleted paragraphs.
5. When you need to get back to level 1, type a back-Tab at the start of a paragraph.

If you have more complex cases, the concepts get more complex, too.

[Ralph]

... and the tutorials I have found and searched, Walt,  (rather more than 47) are both good and bad. Good as a basic introduction to the topic - bad in that too many stop at Lesson 101. The one you highlight is a fine example. A good Noddy level introduction to the presets but nothing about the 'boat-load of goodies' to which GarryP refers.

I say again, it should be easy to (build) multilevel bullet & number lists. By which I mean, at least:

• specify symbols at each level
• specify fonts, sizes, colours etc
• specify tab stops & leaders

then manipulate them in the ways GarryP is looking for.

The Edit Text Style dialogue box offers options that I have never heard of; which suggests it should possible to do something as essential as bullet & number lists. But I can't work out how. I can work out how in InDesign, Quark, even WORD. 

IT IS SO FRUSTRATING !!! I find myself asking if it's just that I'm dim - which makes it very comforting to find many others in the same predicament. 

Over the last couple of months I have been making an effort to convert InDesign and PagePlus files into Affinity Publisher. Nearly every one has been stopped by an issue such as this. 

[redannie]

On 7/3/2019 at 9:32 AM, GarryP said:

My next run-through worked, hooray, (see attached image and file) but I had to close the document and re-open before the paragraphs in the non-linked text frame were given the correct numbers. The numbering restarted at 1 in that frame and refused to do anything else no matter what I tried until I closed/re-opened, upon which the numbering continued (as expected) at 3 (now 4 in the image/file because I added extra stuff to see if the numbering really kept up with the changes).

paragraph numbering 2.afpub

I realise I'm way way WAY past when this was posted.. but am still currently struggling to have accurately numbered multilevel lists.  I want to recreate exactly what @GarryP has done in his document, eg:

1.

   1.1

   1.2

2.

   2.1

   2.2

   2.3

etc. 

I've tried as @walt.farrell said to use the default numbered list as it is, but it does

1.

   1.

   2.

   3.

2. 

   1.

etc.

I've tried altering the options for numbered lists as mentioned above, but end up with

1.

   1.1

   2.2

   3.3

etc.

OR

1.

   1.1

   2.1

   3.1

and I can't seem to get it to do what feels to me like the most obvious choice.  Help!

 

Adrienne

 

[GarryP]

Welcome to the forums.

A thing that worked for me was to use a Name for the bullet style (making it also Global, see attached image) and use that name for all the styles that need to be ‘linked’. It’s been a long time since I have had to look at this so I’m a bit rusty at the moment and don’t have the time to look into it properly. Try looking at my attached image and see if there’s anything there that will help.

The developers changed the way Numbering works for TOCs not too long ago and I don’t know if this has affected other related things, including this. (They haven’t replied to the bug report I posted, linked above).

[Jedrzej]

The thread is a bit old but nevertheless I want to put my 2 cents in it

I found these settings will do the job.

For first level heading make sure you set is as GLOBAL. The name is not required I found. Important setting is "Restart numbering: Below Current level".

For level 2 heading make sure in the TEXT field you include \1 to show the number from the level 1 heading.

Above settings will produce:

1.

1.1.

1.2.

1.3.

2.

2.1.

2.2.

2.3.

...

This will work in a single text frame. If you want to use this setup across multiple pages and text frames, they have to be linked text frames. Otherwise the numbering will reset per each text frame.

One more setting that I like to use is in the FLOW section and it is Start: On Next Page. I typically apply it to Heading 1. With this each time I use a Heading 1 style Publisher will put on a new page. But this is just how I like my documents to be structured.

 

Hope it helps

Edited May 23, 2021 by Jedrzej