Inside bleed 0, still appears in PDF export

[deannak]

I love the Publisher product, but I'm having problems getting one of my export files to work properly. The printer specs require a bleed 0.125" on top, outside & bottom, with no bleed in the center. Instead, that gutter area needs to have 0.125" of non-ink white space. The gutter is not added to the page dimensions, it's to be part of the 6x9" trim size. I'm working with 2-page spreads in Publisher, then exporting as single pages on PDF.

(1) I set up document with bleeds on 3 sides, 0 on inside. I added my own white strip layer to ensure 0.125" non-ink gutter area in the center. But when I export it to PDF (and check Include bleeds), it comes out with the inside bleed included even though I set it to 0.  The page size of the PDF includes that additional 0.125", and I end up with a white strip that's twice as wide as I wanted (i.e. my white strip + the added bleed).

(2) So... I tried subtracting the bleed size and giving it a document of 5.875 x 9", since it's adding the extra 0.125" bleed anyway. Now I get the correct page dimensions, but the inside bleed area still gets filled with bleed from color images. 

Publisher 1.7.1, Mac OSX Mojave 10.14.5. Issue is reproducible on a new file.

Hopefully this makes sense. Please let me know if there's something I can do differently to get this to work. 

Thanks!   -  Deanna

[deannak]

Anybody have experience with this?

In Publisher, I set bleed on 3 sides, yet it exports with bleed on 4 sides.  How can I avoid this?

Thanks for any insights!  

[thomaso]

Yes, I experience this issue, too. In detail:

Export to PDF:
Only the first single page of facing pages exports as expected with inner bleed = 0.
The following pages do show inner bleed in width of the three other edges.

Print > Save as PDF:
Scale: on all pages inner bleed = 0
Shrink: No bleed appears at all.

For export & print the results are regardless whether any marks are activated.

So it is a weird bug that inner bleed = 0 gets ignored on export only, not on print. (whereas a scaled print can't be used as workaround)

[Jon P]

Hi daennak,

I've been looking into this, do you mind just attaching a document demonstrating this and clarifying the exact export options you are using, it would help just clarify a couple of things.

Thanks!

[deannak]

2 hours ago, Jon P said:

Hi daennak,

I've been looking into this, do you mind just attaching a document demonstrating this and clarifying the exact export options you are using, it would help just clarify a couple of things.

Thanks!

Sure!  Thanks for looking into it.  I'm attaching a few things:

Print screens of layout in Publisher (red page on left, blue on right, yellow bleed around outside of spread)
Bleed definition, with -.125" on all sides except inside = 0
Export options, exporting to PDF, pages 1-2, include bleed
Output PDF.  Left red page has a right (inner) bleed of blue showing, while right blue page has a left (inner) bleed of red.
Original Publisher file

** Also...  I discovered one more thing while doing this.  When the layout was just the red & blue pages, exporting all pages worked fine, and gave the correct bleeds.  Once I added 2 more blank pages to the end of the document, then exporting pages 1 & 2 (which were the same exact pages as before) gave this problem.

Thanks for your assistance!   -  Deanna.

 

inner-bleed-pg12.pdf

inner-bleed-issue.afpub

[Old Bruce]

Near as I can tell you are getting what you want. Turn on the show Printers Marks in the More section (button on the bottom of the export dialog). The PDF is showing the Paper Size and the Paper will get trimmed to the Page Size.

[deannak]

Thanks for your feedback!  I guess I didn't explain as well as I could.

Here's a print screen of the PDF export results.  You can see how the left page is picking up part of the right, and vice versa.  The inside bleeds are set to 0, so this inner bleed shouldn't be there - just the yellow bleeds around the outside.

Interestingly, when I had just 2 pages & exported, it came out correct, without that extra bleed.  When I had 4 pages, and selected to export just these two, it added the extra bleed area.

[thomaso]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

 the Paper will get trimmed to the Page Size.

Yes, but these cropping marks always crop at paper size (= netto document page size). Means, the crop marks never tell if or where bleed is respected or added unwanted. The bleed area should be white if bleed is set to 0.

Compare the expected bleed = 0 on page 1 towards pg 2 and 3 in these pdfs.
Only the print to pdf version shows bleed = 0 for all pages.

v408_2 inner bleed 1.pdf

v408_2 inner bleed 2 with marks.pdf

v408_2 inner bleed 3 - print - scale 90percent.pdf

 

 

[Old Bruce]

This just seems to be a very oddly designed press, or printer that needs alternating side 0 bleed.

[deannak]

My printer actually requires a 0.125"white strip on the inside edges, that is part of the page trim size, not added as an additional bleed.  It's very simple for me to set this up in Publisher.  The problem is that when I export it, it keeps adding an extra, unwanted inside bleed that picks up whatever is on the opposite page.

[Old Bruce]

2 hours ago, deannak said:

My printer actually requires a 0.125"white strip on the inside edges, that is part of the page trim size, not added as an additional bleed.  It's very simple for me to set this up in Publisher.  The problem is that when I export it, it keeps adding an extra, unwanted inside bleed that picks up whatever is on the opposite page.

I am trying to wrap my head around this and keep getting more questions rather than possible solutions. So I now have to deal with semantics...

When you say your printer, is that a piece of equipment or its it a shop with people working with presses etc? I ask because you say "... the page trim size, ..." which makes think of a shop with paper cutters and not a home/office printer. 

Another question; on one sheet of paper (going into the printer) how many pages are printed on each side? Is it one up or two or four? 

And finally how is it bound? Perfect? Spiral? Stitched?...

It is all caused by that eighth of an inch needed on the inside edge. I dinna ken.

[thomaso]

Honestly I still do not understand the goal in practice and am curious to see.
Reminds me of this different thread, where + inner bleed for facing pages was requested:

However, I think if inner bleed = 0 is general possible to layout than it should be able to export with this setting, too.
That it works when I print instead of exporting appears to me definitely strange (to avoid the ugly word buggy).

 

[deannak]

I'm no expert, but here's my situation.  
 * My project is a paperback book, being handled by a commercial printer.  
 * Their specifications are that they need 0.125" white, ink-free strip on the inner edge of each page.
 * This white strip is part of the final 6x9" trim size for the book - it's not something that gets sliced off.
 * They say this is necessary for their binding process, this is the edge that gets glued.

If I could just specify "no bleed" on that side, and it exported with no bleed, this would be simple - just put a 0.125" white strip on the inner edge of every page and it's good to go.  But the problem is that it keeps adding the extra bleed, which interferes with my 0.125" white strip.

This seems like it's a bug, but if anybody has a suggestion on how to accomplish this given the current software, I would really appreciate it!  

[thomaso]

I assume your print shop does not want any marks but only the pages with bleed. Perhaps it can be a functional workaround to completely give up Affinities bleed feature for now and to calculate it in the document page size instead. As you have started already:

On 6/21/2019 at 1:08 AM, deannak said:

(2) So... I tried subtracting the bleed size and giving it a document of 5.875 x 9", since it's adding the extra 0.125" bleed anyway. Now I get the correct page dimensions, but the inside bleed area still gets filled with bleed from color images.

Unfortunately, since there are no "global" layers in AfPublisher yet, you can not simply place a white strip on a master page over everything. But you can use it, and, as a workaround, move this master page layer on each relevant spread to the top level position.

 

 

 

 

 

[deannak]

Thank you Thomas!  I think your workaround suggestion could give me a way forward with this.  

I also appreciate the tips about putting the white strip onto a master that I can then place on top of the other pages.  I recently read in this forum (such an excellent resource!) of somebody suggesting to do the same with page numbers that you want to show on top of images, so it seems like I could put the page # and white strip onto the same master.  

Thanks so much!  -  Deanna.

[mac_heibu]

Look at this little screencast. For better visibility I coloured your white area in dark red:

 

[deannak]

Thanks, Mac!  That looks like a good way to get the white strip I need.  

[JimWelch]

Is there a fix for this? I'm having this same problem.

 

Printer wants 0.125 bleed on top and bottom and outside edges, 0 bleed on inner edge. When I export my inner 0.125 on all pages of a spread is messed up.

[deannak]

Hi Jim -

I eventually discovered that the inner bleed 0 worked OK when I exported ALL pages together.  Whenever I tried a range of pages, it had a problem.

Hope that helps, and good luck with it!    -  Deanna.

[Wojciech Krakowiak]

@deannak you just saved my time and it seems it can be a good hint for devs.

I also had this bug when I tried to export a range of pages. Temporary delation of pages that I don't want to export is a workaround.

@Jon P I mark you as you were into this topic before. It would be great to have it fixed in upcoming versions

[Chris Patmore]

It is definitely a bug with Publisher. InDesign will export a PDF with no bleed on the inside edge of spreads. Having the bleed on the inside edge is fine with traditional litho printing where the pages are all trimmed, or specific imposition is used, depending on the binding method, but with print-on-demand, which usually doesn't require crop marks but a very specific size page size that only has bleed on three outer edges, it will reject the file with the extra inner edge bleed. Even cropping the extra bleed off in Acrobat doesn't resolve the problem as that extra bleed is still in the file, just not visible, as I found out today. Workarounds are the solution to a basic fundamental error.

[Jon P]

We have this logged, I've just given the report a nudge. It does seem to only be reproducible when specifying a page range

[Chris Patmore]

On 10/10/2019 at 2:11 PM, Jon P said:

We have this logged, I've just given the report a nudge. It does seem to only be reproducible when specifying a page range

I had set a page range that include all the pages (i.e. 1-64). I did this because the first two times I tried to export the file without a page range I got errors, but when I put in the page range it exported the first time without any problems, apart from the extra, unwanted bleed. I have just tried to export the file again without the page range, the first time it gave the same error as before, but on the second attempt it worked fine and produced a correct PDF with no bleed on the inside edge. It was partly a user error on my part, but also a bug in the programme. It's good to know that it will work correctly and I can continue to use the software for future editions of the magazine, provided I don't use the page range setting, or at least until it is fixed. Now if that embedded fonts issue on imported PDFs can be sorted I'll be a happy bunny.

[Sheepshed]

I have a related topic but as an AP novice using a trial version 1.8.4 , I'm currently going round in circles. I am trying to export a pdf for a Blurb book.

If I add bleed to the document, the exported pdf shows bleed on the inside margin spilling on to the left hand page. If I put the inside margin bleed to 0,

Publisher overrides the other settings, top, bottom etc and fails to add bleed at all. I guess I'm failing to see something obvious, but I've tried many work rounds. Thanks for any advice.

[Sheepshed]

Just spotted the lock/unlock option to the bleed settings which has solved my problem. Well, I said I was a novice!