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1 minute ago, Mithferion said:

And there are ways to manage frustration, because it's a bittersweet trap that is hard to get out from.

The best way would be for such essential features that have been requested for 5 years to be delivered or at least some kind of roadmap indicating when it will be delivered.

While I appreciate that your post was made with the best of intentions, I do find other users trying to manage others really about the most annoying thing on these kinds of forums. Fine, if you disagree say it, if you have a question that needs answering then fine (or vice versa) but posts telling everyone to be positive when they are (justifiably fed up) is actually really quite provocative.

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1 minute ago, robinp said:

The best way would be for such essential features that have been requested for 5 years to be delivered or at least some kind of roadmap indicating when it will be delivered.

That would be great, but again, we'd need to be in their Team to know how and why thay've made the decisions that are already a present. It's risky to make any assumptions regarding that.

 

3 minutes ago, robinp said:

posts telling everyone to be positive when they are (justifiably fed up) is actually really quite provocative. 

I'm not telling you to be positive. I'm not that kind of person, but I am a person that knows that having a poor frustration management is not good for your own health. You are more than welcome, in my opinion, to express your thoughts and how the lack of the Feature is bad for both parties (because it is).

And yes, I write with the best of intentions, based on the things I've learned in harsh professional IT environments.

Best regards!


You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

AMD FX 8350 :: Radeon HD 7870 :: Windows 10 ::  http://mithferion.deviantart.com/

Oxygen Icons :: Free Quality Fonts :: Public Domain Pictures :: iOS 11 Design Resources :: iOS App Icon Template :: Hot to do High Quality Art :: Mesh Warp / Distort Tool Considerations

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On a side note, this is a list I made for an older Topic, about some Features and their status (with some updates):

Designer

  • Bleed area guides [Already in 1.7.0]
  • Mesh Fill tool [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Mesh Warp/Distort tool [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Knife tool [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Calligraphic line styles [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Arrowhead line styles [Already in 1.7.0]
  • Export slices with previews [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Pages (like the ones in Fireworks)  [Already in 1.7.1. With the detail that Designer only supports Pages created in Publisher]
  • Multiple Effects/Fills/Strokes per shape [Already in Beta 1.7.0. Not available for text until later]
  • Replicate/Blend [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Convert Bitmaps to vectors (Auto traicing) [Promised for the future. Possibly in the 2.x cycle]
  • Select same Color/Fill/Attribute [Promised for the future]
  • Blob tool
  • Spiral tool
  • Width tool
  • Paint Bucket tool
  • Vector Eraser tool
  • Vector Crop tool to do actual vector cropping
  • Shape Builder tool [Promised for the future]
  • Scripting/Extensibility [Promised for the future. Possibly by the end of 2019]
  • Text Hinting support
  • Prototyping capabilities [Promised for the future. Possibly in the 2.x cycle]
  • Vector patterns
  • Fixing the convert to curves problems at small sizes [Promised for the future. Hopefully, before the end of 2019]
  • Fixing problems with Boolean operations [Promised for the future. Hopefully, before the end of 2019]
  • Saving custom workspaces
  • DXF/DWG Import/Export [Considered for the future]
  • ICO Export
  • BMP Export
  • WMF Export in Mac
  • TGA with alpha Channel Export [Already in 1.7.2 Beta]
  • CDR Import/Export
  • PSD Export with editable text [Something that the Dev Team wants for the future]
  • "Layered" PNG (from Fireworks) Import
  • AI Import/Export
  • Right-To-Left languages support

That's a lot to cover. Pick your favorite ones, compared them with another Forum member and you might see how something you like is not even wanted from someone else.

I am in the same position as you, and I have to decide how to cope with the lack of some of the Tools listed before.

Best regards!


You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

AMD FX 8350 :: Radeon HD 7870 :: Windows 10 ::  http://mithferion.deviantart.com/

Oxygen Icons :: Free Quality Fonts :: Public Domain Pictures :: iOS 11 Design Resources :: iOS App Icon Template :: Hot to do High Quality Art :: Mesh Warp / Distort Tool Considerations

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16 minutes ago, Mithferion said:

I'd suggest to approach these topics from a wider scope that just our needs, and statements based on out needs.

Also, I'm not saying that they don't add support for this. Even if I don't have any use for it right now, I want them to add it at some point, because I believe it's going to be benefitial, for the users and for the health of the Suite. It's just that when people say "it's a basic feature" it sounds more like "I use it, so you should develop it for me first".

While I get that it's important for you, and I want you to have the Tools available, the way we express ourselves can make things harder. And there are ways to manage frustration, because it's a bittersweet trap that is hard to get out from.

Best regards!

Mithferion sounds very passive aggressive and condescending dont you think Robinp and his wording.. "I want you to have..." is the company line methinks.  DXF export is A BASIC FEATURE in every other vector graphics design package  that purports to be "professional". Despite giving us "free" updates (are we supposed to be grateful they are remedying their omissions? ) they still haven't delivered what was originally promised. DXF output. That virtually makes this product unfit for purpose. Maybe its money back time. 

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If I’m being passive-aggresive and condescending, my apologies. 

Best regards!


You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

AMD FX 8350 :: Radeon HD 7870 :: Windows 10 ::  http://mithferion.deviantart.com/

Oxygen Icons :: Free Quality Fonts :: Public Domain Pictures :: iOS 11 Design Resources :: iOS App Icon Template :: Hot to do High Quality Art :: Mesh Warp / Distort Tool Considerations

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13 minutes ago, Flymo Fo said:

Mithferion sounds very passive aggressive and condescending dont you think Robinp and his wording.. "I want you to have..." is the company line methinks.  DXF export is A BASIC FEATURE in every other vector graphics design package  that purports to be "professional". Despite giving us "free" updates (are we supposed to be grateful they are remedying their omissions? ) they still haven't delivered what was originally promised. DXF output. That virtually makes this product unfit for purpose. Maybe its money back time. 

I'm really trying my best to not get personal in these discussions. Criticising Serif and their lack of transparency is one thing. I genuinely think @Mithferion means well which is more than I can say for some others. Saying that I do wish @haakoo would stop reacting negatively to basically every post I have made (since the debate about the definition of 'prevaricate') without actually engaging.

The crazy thing is that I think EVERYONE actually wants these features and wants them as soon as possible. The lack of info coming out of Serif is what is causing these discussions to spiral out of control.

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1 hour ago, Mithferion said:

On a side note, this is a list I made for an older Topic, about some Features and their status (with some updates):

Designer

  • Bleed area guides [Already in 1.7.0]
  • Mesh Fill tool [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Mesh Warp/Distort tool [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Knife tool [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Calligraphic line styles [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Arrowhead line styles [Already in 1.7.0]
  • Export slices with previews [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Pages (like the ones in Fireworks) [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle. But not quite sure if they will work the same way]
  • Multiple Effects/Fills/Strokes per shape [Already in Beta 1.7.0. Not available for text until later]
  • Replicate/Blend [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Convert Bitmaps to vectors (Auto traicing) [Promised for the future. Possibly in the 2.x cycle]
  • Select same Color/Fill/Attribute [Promised for the future]
  • Blob tool
  • Spiral tool
  • Width tool
  • Paint Bucket tool
  • Vector Eraser tool
  • Vector Crop tool to do actual vector cropping
  • Shape Builder tool [Promised for the future]
  • Scripting/Extensibility [Promised for the future. Possibly by the end of 2019]
  • Text Hinting support
  • Prototyping capabilities [Promised for the future. Possibly in the 2.x cycle]
  • Vector patterns
  • Fixing the convert to curves problems at small sizes [Promised for the future. Hopefully, before the end of 2019]
  • Fixing problems with Boolean operations [Promised for the future. Hopefully, before the end of 2019]
  • Saving custom workspaces
  • DXF/DWG Import/Export [Considered for the future]
  • ICO Export
  • BMP Export
  • WMF Export in Mac
  • TGA with alpha Channel Export [Already in 1.7.2 Beta]
  • CDR Import/Export
  • PSD Export with editable text [Something that the Dev Team wants for the future]
  • "Layered" PNG (from Fireworks) Import
  • AI Import/Export
  • Right-To-Left languages support

That's a lot to cover. Pick your favorite ones, compared them with another Forum member and you might see how something you like is not even wanted from someone else.

I am in the same position as you, and I have to decide how to cope with the lack of some of the Tools listed before.

Best regards!

@robinp @Flymo Fo and other unsatified users of Affinity Suite, IF you need all of the above functions & features, WHY use Affinity in this situation?

Affinity is a LOW COST alternative to the big other software companies products that cost so so many dollars&pounds more, and, did you think that you getting an Adobe Illustrator app for 40-50 bucks That replaces everything?

I’ve seen amazing piece of art and works done in Affinity Designer over the years, WITHOUT all this functions... They must be cheating, or...?

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51 minutes ago, robinp said:

Criticising Serif and their lack of transparency is one thing.

Have I missed this? What do you mean with lack of Transparency? The Transp-tool into toolbar, what do you & I use this for then?

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9 minutes ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

I think he meant Serif as a company, not a tool in their programs.

Ha! My brain seems to be off now... Thanks!

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This issue here so typical for being some kind of unprofessional (and to avoid misunderstandings .. I'm talking about serif ;-)). In my business, I never ever comment "maybe later someday" on a requested feature. I always try say clearly yes or no! If this is not possible for some good reason I provide a schedule to come to a decision and keep the process transparent! So basically I want to be "deterministic" for my customers. Suggesting it will be done some day, letting people wait and never commit clearly to a decision makes people upset somewhen .. doesn't matter if the product is free, cost 50k or 50 bugs like this one. Also other features don't Mather that much in this case in my experience. And this is what happens here right now.  

As stated before, I'm a Mac user and need to work with DXF files only from time to time. I can either by PS and burn my money as I will never use 95% of it's features .. or .. hmm .. Corel is a alternative but also either expensive. I have not found an inexpensive Mac tool to work with. And I will NOT pay several hundert bugs for something I need twice a year. So here we are.

br J.

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3 hours ago, fjulian79 said:

As stated before, I'm a Mac user and need to work with DXF files only from time to time.

 

If it is from time to time, then the harm in your workflow of just having inkscape installed -is available for mac, win, and linux- , and opening there a svg exported from affinity designer , and export there to DXF is less than minimal. Indeed, as I always say, although is eons behind A. Designer, it has some features -like would happen between two different apps aiming for the same, or... 2 oil paintings, from even the same author- that really worth it having installed that free application. You are not opening it everyday, but instead, as you say, from time to time. So, that makes a not too good argument for it being essential to your use case. And makes a perfect case for just having the good old Inkscape for those cases. And they could eventually add it, but, particularly for professionals, you need to find your own workflows when are stuck. With whatever.

Heck, for more 3D inclined people -and CAD ones should be, which btw, is not the DTP graphic design and photography worlds,  which are the main focus of these two apps- there's Blender 3D, I have tons of times imported there a SVG -from affinity, inkscape, you name it- and exported to dxf for dice printing companies, for other 3D printing solutions, and for many use cases. Zero probs, and it'd took like some seconds, or as much, a pair of minutes if wanna touch up sth. That's NOTHING compared to the many hours building the design in the main app, in many cases being Affinity Designer, currently my main work horse for vectors, effectively, and doing very serious work.

About the customer relationship part, there's something people in these specific forums keep getting absolutely wrong. Is not that you are a permanent client paying for a subscription (and btw, hoping to have your fav feature implemented with several brands of the subscription model...lol, good luck with that!), or whatever other service payment. They sold you a product, full stop. It did not have dxf. You did tested it -otherwise, no defense of the point could be possible- and you were fine with it and purchased it. You are requesting more work from them without having paid for that. It annoys me to no end that the fact that receiving free updates makes people think they owe us, and not the opposite way.

PD : It's bucks -dollars- , I think, what you meant, not bugs. Although 50 bugs can be very expensive, depending on the bugs, I guess. 50 bucks in professional software is peanuts. An absolute gift. 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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3 minutes ago, SrPx said:
 

If it is from time to time, then the harm in your workflow of just having inkscape installed -is available for mac, win, and linux- , and opening there a svg exported from affinity designer , and export there to DXF is less than minimal. Indeed, as I always say, although is eons behind A. Designer, it has some features -like would happen between two different apps aiming for the same, or... 2 oil paintings, from even the same author- that really worth it having installed that free application. You are not opening it everyday, but instead, as you say, from time to time. So, that makes a not too good argument for it being essential to your use case. And makes a perfect case for just having the good old Inkscape for those cases. And they could eventually add it, but, particularly for professionals, you need to find your own workflows when are stuck. With whatever.

Heck, for more 3D inclined people -and CAD should be, which btw, is not the DTP graphic design and photographyworlds,  which are the main focus of these two apps- there's Blender 3D, I have tons of times imported there a SVG -from affinity, inkscape, you name it- and exported to dxf for dice printing companies, for other 3D printing solutions, and for many use cases. Zero probs, and it'd took like some seconds, or as much, a pair of minutes if wanna touch up sth. That's NOTHING compared to the many hours building the design in the main app, in many cases being Affinity Designer, currently my main work horse for vectors, effectively, and doing very serious work.

About the customer relationship part, there's something people in these specific forums keep getting absolutely wrong. Is not that you are a permanent client paying for a subscription, or whatever other service payment. They sold you a product, full stop. It did not have dxf. You did tested it -otherwise, no defense of the point could be possible- and you were fine with it and purchased it. You are requesting more work from them without having paid for that. It annoys me to no end that the fact that receiving free updates makes people think they owe us, and not the opposite way.

PD : It's bucks -dollars- , I think, what you meant, not bugs. Although 50 bugs can be very expensive, depending on the bugs, I guess. 50 bucks in professional software is peanuts. An absolute gift. 

I suppose the issue comes when it is not clear if software had a feature or not. If it is such a ‘basic’, ‘standard’ (or whatever term you wish to use) that you just expect it.

I do agree, this is not a client relationship. It is a customer relationship. A customer relationship where you *know* the product is going to be regularly updated. So to suggest that we should just be blindly grateful for the updates because we paid once is slightly unfair. The free updates were always part of the deal. 

The real grumbles are around the length of time some features have been requested and the silence around if and when they will be delivered.

Anyway, I’ve had enough of arguing with people who are saying these these annoyances / grumbles / concerns shouldn’t be expressed. I’ve no intention of getting into a debate with you. Just explaining a few things.

Have a nice evening. 

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6 minutes ago, robinp said:

I suppose the issue comes when it is not clear if software had a feature or not.

Serif is not unclear about AD's export formats: https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/designer/full-feature-list/ (look for the section 'Professional Colour, Compatibility, and Output' further down the page). It's on the user's / customer's behalf to inform oneself before purchase.

Cheers,
d.


Affinity Designer 1.7.1.404 (beta 1.7.3.476)   |   Affinity Photo 1.7.1.404 (beta 1.7.3.476)   |   Affinity Publisher 1.7.1.404 (beta 1.7.3.475)
Affinity Designer for iPad 1.7.0.7   |   Affinity Photo for iPad 1.6.8.77

Windows 10 (1809) 64-bit - Core i7 - 16GB - Intel HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M
iPad pro 9.7" + Apple Pencil

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17 minutes ago, SrPx said:

If it is from time to time, then the harm in your workflow of just having inkscape installed -is available for mac, win, and linux- , and opening there a svg exported from affinity designer , and export there to DXF is less than minimal.

Did you really mean to say “the harm ... is less than minimal” [my emphasis]? :/


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.2.471 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.2.153 • Designer for iPad 1.7.2.6 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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14 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Did you really mean to say “the harm ... is less than minimal” [my emphasis]? :/

Yeah, I was trying to be expressive in this, my non native language. We exaggerate a lot in my first language, and some stuff does not translate well directly, lol.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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17 minutes ago, dominik said:

Serif is not unclear about AD's export formats: https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/designer/full-feature-list/ (look for the section 'Professional Colour, Compatibility, and Output' further down the page). It's on the user's / customer's behalf to inform oneself before purchase.

Cheers,
d.

It was a general point rather than specifically regarding file formats. 

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Well I know there is inkscape .. but have you ever tried it yourself on a Mac? .. there are issues with MacOs so it is not available straight away .. you have to install this and that and after some time wehen you got it up and running its not performing well .. so I decided for me that Inkscape is no option als long it is in this state. 

My solution is my old windows laptop with my CorelDraw license installed .. but honestly .. it's a shame that on MacOs (which is used by all those fancy creative people) PS is more or less the only reliable and smooth tool.

And then there is serif with the designer .. the app recommended in App Store by apple .. the super trooper vector tool for 50 BUCKS ;-) .. and there is no dxf support .. but hey .. you can file a feature request :46_confounded::47_tired_face::57_cry::51_scream::61_sob:>:(

But now as there is Corel back on macOS I feel hope again .. maybe there is a cheap home version some day. 

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1 hour ago, robinp said:

It was a general point rather than specifically regarding file formats. 

The full feature list is pretty clear about the functions that are available at the moment of purchase and is really very helpful to make a decision. On top of that there is a trial (and an uncomplicated refund policy).

Perhaps I misunderstood what you mean by 'the issue comes...'. What is the issue?

Cheers,
d.


Affinity Designer 1.7.1.404 (beta 1.7.3.476)   |   Affinity Photo 1.7.1.404 (beta 1.7.3.476)   |   Affinity Publisher 1.7.1.404 (beta 1.7.3.475)
Affinity Designer for iPad 1.7.0.7   |   Affinity Photo for iPad 1.6.8.77

Windows 10 (1809) 64-bit - Core i7 - 16GB - Intel HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M
iPad pro 9.7" + Apple Pencil

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3 minutes ago, dominik said:

The full feature list is pretty clear about the functions that are available at the moment of purchase and is really very helpful to make a decision. On top of that there is a trial (and an uncomplicated refund policy).

Perhaps I misunderstood what you mean by 'the issue comes...'. What is the issue?

Cheers,
d.

I think you misunderstood my point about not wanting to debate this.

 

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2 minutes ago, robinp said:

I think you misunderstood my point about not wanting to debate this.

 

Interesting way to participate in a debate ;-)  But I do respect your wish.

Cheers,
d.


Affinity Designer 1.7.1.404 (beta 1.7.3.476)   |   Affinity Photo 1.7.1.404 (beta 1.7.3.476)   |   Affinity Publisher 1.7.1.404 (beta 1.7.3.475)
Affinity Designer for iPad 1.7.0.7   |   Affinity Photo for iPad 1.6.8.77

Windows 10 (1809) 64-bit - Core i7 - 16GB - Intel HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M
iPad pro 9.7" + Apple Pencil

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3 minutes ago, dominik said:

Interesting way to participate in a debate ;-)  But I do respect your wish.

Cheers,
d.

Thanks. I’m just bored of making the same points over and over again. There are those of us who are a bit fed up and there are some who believe we are wrong. There are probably some who are somewhere in the middle. I get that but it seems many are not open minded enough to empathise with those who are not happy because they are struggling due to missing functionality. 

Anyway, have a good evening. 

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18 hours ago, Mithferion said:

On a side note, this is a list I made for an older Topic, about some Features and their status (with some updates):

Designer

  • Bleed area guides [Already in 1.7.0]
  • Mesh Fill tool [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Mesh Warp/Distort tool [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Knife tool [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Calligraphic line styles [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Arrowhead line styles [Already in 1.7.0]
  • Export slices with previews [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Pages (like the ones in Fireworks) [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle. But not quite sure if they will work the same way]
  • Multiple Effects/Fills/Strokes per shape [Already in Beta 1.7.0. Not available for text until later]
  • Replicate/Blend [In Roadmap for the 1.x cycle]
  • Convert Bitmaps to vectors (Auto traicing) [Promised for the future. Possibly in the 2.x cycle]
  • Select same Color/Fill/Attribute [Promised for the future]
  • Blob tool
  • Spiral tool
  • Width tool
  • Paint Bucket tool
  • Vector Eraser tool
  • Vector Crop tool to do actual vector cropping
  • Shape Builder tool [Promised for the future]
  • Scripting/Extensibility [Promised for the future. Possibly by the end of 2019]
  • Text Hinting support
  • Prototyping capabilities [Promised for the future. Possibly in the 2.x cycle]
  • Vector patterns
  • Fixing the convert to curves problems at small sizes [Promised for the future. Hopefully, before the end of 2019]
  • Fixing problems with Boolean operations [Promised for the future. Hopefully, before the end of 2019]
  • Saving custom workspaces
  • DXF/DWG Import/Export [Considered for the future]
  • ICO Export
  • BMP Export
  • WMF Export in Mac
  • TGA with alpha Channel Export [Already in 1.7.2 Beta]
  • CDR Import/Export
  • PSD Export with editable text [Something that the Dev Team wants for the future]
  • "Layered" PNG (from Fireworks) Import
  • AI Import/Export
  • Right-To-Left languages support

That's a lot to cover. Pick your favorite ones, compared them with another Forum member and you might see how something you like is not even wanted from someone else.

I am in the same position as you, and I have to decide how to cope with the lack of some of the Tools listed before.

Best regards!

Honestly I think serif will hold on some of those as a hook for costumers to get v2, I don't blame them, still I'd like to have as much of these as part of the 1.x free updates.

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8 hours ago, Arceom said:

Honestly I think serif will hold on some of those as a hook for costumers to get v2, I don't blame them, still I'd like to have as much of these as part of the 1.x free updates.

I don’t mind paying for an upgrade. The problem is the resources they have, that limits the Development.

Also, they promised that the ones I put a red note to, will be in the free updates.

Best regards!


You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

AMD FX 8350 :: Radeon HD 7870 :: Windows 10 ::  http://mithferion.deviantart.com/

Oxygen Icons :: Free Quality Fonts :: Public Domain Pictures :: iOS 11 Design Resources :: iOS App Icon Template :: Hot to do High Quality Art :: Mesh Warp / Distort Tool Considerations

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