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Will be a free update from 1.9 to 2.0?


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48 minutes ago, monzo said:

No. Will they still work and be as secure after the next Mac, Windows, iOS update, or the one after? Hmmm?

At least for Windows, there will definitely be a few next updates (upgrading to Win12/13 is of course a question) - so definitely not overnight, but definitely in the next few years.

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1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

At least for Windows, there will definitely be a few next updates (upgrading to Win12/13 is of course a question) - so definitely not overnight, but definitely in the next few years.

So you're saying V1 will still get basic compatibility/security updates? I thought they'd ruled that out?

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1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

At least for Windows, there will definitely be a few next updates (upgrading to Win12/13 is of course a question) - so definitely not overnight, but definitely in the next few years.

For V1 ? Not sure where you heard that Pšenda.

Unofficially Serif QA/Devs would like to put some time aside from writing V2 to solve the problems recently caused by Windows 11, iPadOS 16 and macOS Ventura (things that have regressed since our last release), and release a 1.10.6 to address those, but right now the official line is that we won't be fixing 1.10.5. I really hope we can do a 1.10.6 but those few issues are (1) not promised and (2) very limited in scope. It takes quite a lot behind the scenes to do a full V1 release cycle. It may never happen and monzo is making that point.

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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13 minutes ago, monzo said:

So you're saying V1 will still get basic compatibility/security updates? I thought they'd ruled that out?

As you yourself write in the previous post, it is an "OS" update, not "ASuite V1" update.
At least for me, there is no need for any security update for V1 (security patches are mostly related to the OS).

 

7 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

caused by Windows 11, iPadOS 16 and macOS Ventura

I'm writing about Windows, not about other OSes.
And as far as I know, the problems in Win11 were related to some OS updates, which hopefully MS will fix.

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Just now, Pšenda said:

And as far as I know, the problems in Win11 were related to some OS updates, which hopefully MS will fix.

The Windows 11 search problem was caused by Microsoft in a recent update, but we are getting impatient waiting for MS to fix it. They may well not

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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3 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

As you yourself write in the previous post, it is an "OS" update, not "ASuite V1" update.

I wrote "Will they still work and be as secure after the next Mac, Windows, iOS update, or the one after?"

And as Serif have confirmed below:

15 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

right now the official line is that we won't be fixing 1.10.5.

The V1 Serif software is officially abandoned, and those of us who don't have another £90 to fork out on the 'new' versions, will just have to keep our fingers crossed our purchases will still be compatible after forthcoming Mac, Windows or iOS updates.

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3 minutes ago, monzo said:

I wrote "Will they still work and be as secure after the next Mac, Windows, iOS update, or the one after?"

Yes, I know what you wrote. But I still understand that you are talking about OS updates, not Affinity updates of version 1 apps. So it does not contradict the officially released statement (see the FAQ on the front page of the Serif website) that V1 will no longer be updated.

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Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
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4 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Yes, I know what you wrote. But I still understand that you are talking about OS updates, not Affinity updates of version 1 apps. So it does not contradict the officially released statement (see the FAQ on the front page of the Serif website) that V1 will no longer be updated.

I know that. But Affinity products don't exist in a World on their own, they run on computer operating systems. As they have stopped updating their V1 apps then at some stage - could be tomorrow, could be in five years time, we just don't know - they will no longer be fully compatible, which contradicts statements on here today, that we can use the software 'for as long as we want'.

I don't expect years of free updates, but a bit of an overlap shouldn't be too much to ask for!

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The price for an upgrade is more than fair, but the problem is that it isn't much of an update. What is happening is that I now have to bloat my phone and computer with two versions (Photoshop I have 7 different versions for compatibility). Now all my workflow is broken to Spine in v2, and eventually Spine will break my v1 workflow to stay compatible. This shouldn't be a separate install.

Secondly, how does the universal system work? With a login and IAP which is hugely buggy, and can cause big problems in the future if the company ever dissolves. This is also an Apple problem.

What would I like? V2 updates in the existing app. I don't want two installs. I will pay gladly for this not to happen. As it stands now I'm uninstalling. It is hard to call continued development of a great product being ripped off, that's not the word, I'm being disrespected. My time and workflow are being shat on. Doesn't seem like there is a way to make this right. Serif has already committed to wasting my time and breaking compatibility permanently. It makes Adobe much more attractive again for a pro like me. I still subscribe to Adobe CS, but I think this is going to push me back to the Adobe way of doing things, and this won't end well.

It sucks the App Store is terrible and stifles the idea of upgrades without making the total mess this is. I get it, you need money, and you deserve money, but this was...botched.

Please at the very least provide bug fixes on v1 for a couple years. I don't need new features, but I do need my workflow unimpacted. That's the bare minimum of good faith here.

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1 hour ago, Patrick Connor said:

Unofficially Serif QA/Devs would like to put some time aside from writing V2 to solve the problems recently caused by Windows 11, iPadOS 16 and macOS Ventura (things that have regressed since our last release), and release a 1.10.6 to address those, but right now the official line is that we won't be fixing 1.10.5. I really hope we can do a 1.10.6 but those few issues are (1) not promised and (2) very limited in scope. It takes quite a lot behind the scenes to do a full V1 release cycle. It may never happen and monzo is making that point.

@monzo Cutting "right now the official line is that we won't be fixing 1.10.5" out of that and announcing that it's officially abandoned is pretty bad faith.

They're a small team, they'd like to provide bug fixes for an older version of software running on an unsupported OS, but won't commit to it due to limited resources.

That's... pretty standard to going slightly above and beyond for software. It's highly unlikely there's a software update tomorrow that breaks Affinity v1. Does Adobe CS1 run on Big Sur? Would you expect it to?

That said there's obviously some bumpy parts of this upgrade - licenses are a bit of a mess and described in contradictory terms in various places around the site, the payment system seems to crashing, etc.

@specworkfan they're separate versions due to how MAS store works and to keep things consistent. At least it's not like the versions of Photoshop on your phone (??). IAP should be able to restored even if Serif goes out of business, but you could also buy the apps directly from Serif.

Having docs import semi-broken from v1 to v2 sucks, but could you just stay on v1 until there's a point release for v2 that fixes them. Having one version of the app would make that harder to deal with really.
 

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11 minutes ago, erutan said:

Cutting "right now the official line is that we won't be fixing 1.10.5" out of that and announcing that it's officially abandoned is pretty bad faith.

They're a small team, they'd like to provide bug fixes for an older version of software running on an unsupported OS, but won't commit to it due to limited resources.

That's... pretty standard to going slightly above and beyond for software.

It's not 'standard'. For example a music software developer I support provides a yearly pricing model for updates on the App Store, but keeps existing versions updated with basic compatibilty and bug fixes for those that have purchased the original version, but don't want to, or can't pay for new features. It's a complicated bit of kit, and he's a significantly smaller outfit than Serif.

It's a business decision. They could have factored in a transitional period instead of switching support off overnight for all of their original products, but they didn't.

You can't expect everyone to be happy about that.

11 minutes ago, erutan said:

  v1. Does Adobe CS1 run on Big Sur? Would you expect it to?

 

I've no idea, but since it was released 18 years ago I very much doubt it.

V1 Affinity software was still on sale a few days ago. It is now no longer supported.

 

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They're not officially committing to a further update to v1, but would like to do one. That's different.

Not supporting old versions happens and is common. Look at the changelogs of software done by small teams and how many times an old version leapfrogs a new one. There's v1 updates until v2, then v2 updates until v3, etc. Most software also doesn't stop being sold before a new version comes out.

Some developers (like your music guy) will support older versions to some extent, but that comes at the cost (resources spent) of being able to make the new ones better. If they kept supporting v1 for years you'd have people complaining that development for the v2 they paid for was being slowed down by people that didn't buy the new version. /shrug

Halide has a subscription where you get updates and bug fixes to the app even if your subscription lapses, but new features are locked out and you have full access to ones that existed when your subscription was active. That'd get to be a mess for something with a lot more moving pieces like the Affinity products but works well for a camera app.

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30 minutes ago, erutan said:

If they kept supporting v1 for years you'd have people complaining that development for the v2 they paid for was being slowed down by people that didn't buy the new version. /shrug
 

No-one's suggesting V1 is supported for years. But I personally think switching off support for the 7 apps I've purchased immediately on release of V2 with no period of grace, or upgrade path for existing customers, has undermined my faith in the company. Not just for this release, but for future versions.

This could have been handled a lot better than it has.

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Sure it's been a rough transition - this is the first time they've had a major version upgrade and the unified license complicates things with different store fronts etc.

Again, they're not officially committing to a further update to v1, but would like to do one. You keep ignoring this.

There is an upgrade path, it's a 40% discount. Limitations due to how MAS works have been explained multiple times all over the forum.

You'll be cutting yourself out of most Mac applications if you want old versions updated after new versions are released a few from my Dock I googled release notes for:

https://www.rogueamoeba.com/support/knowledgebase/releasenotes/?showCategory=Audio+Hijack 
https://www.rogueamoeba.com/support/knowledgebase/releasenotes/?showCategory=Airfoil+for+Mac 
https://www.rogueamoeba.com/support/knowledgebase/releasenotes/?showCategory=SoundSource
https://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/versionhistory/

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/release-notes?os=macOS

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11 hours ago, bayustudio said:

Starting to think of There will be lot less complains if 40% discount only given for existing customers 😄

It will give the impression of true upgrade path.

I think the big issue is the limited time for everyone, which makes it a high pressure sales tactic instead of a reward for loyal customers.

For previous purchasers it should not be a limited time discount.

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Is it just me or why do I don´t get the Problem here? I mean Adobe CS2 runs fine under Windows 10 and I will assume that Affinity 1 will also run fine under future Versions of Windows. 

Regarding Security: Critical Errors will still be fixed I assume but I don´t think there are any.

Let´s think so: Thanks to Inflation the Affinity Suite is getting more expensive BUT we have a 40 % Discount for like what? Another 4-5 Years until Version 3 comes? The ROI is very very high here. You can get the Single-User Version for 120 € and you know what? for EVERY Platform. So you can run Photo on your Desktop Windows PC, on your Mac Laptop and your iPad without any additional costs. Yeah yeah not at the same time, but you have all 3 Programms on all 3 Platforms. 

And the BEST Part is: you pay ONCE and use them forever your Mac / iPad Support them, because let´s face it: On Windows there will always be a way to run old Apps. 

Now let´s compare the single User Price, 120 €, to the same Package from our lovely "friends" Adobe
Affinity 2: 120 € purchase with Updates for X Years.
Adobe CC: 61,95 € per Month = 743,40 € per Year. Stop paying = no Software. You own nothing. That alone means that after 2 MONTH of Adobe CC you have 1 FULL Affinity Package.
But hey there is another Option: Use the Adobe CC MONTLY Plan for only 92,94 € per Month... 
Yes I love Adobe Photoshop... Ok I love the CameraRaw Plugin. But for that Price? Nope nope.

For me current Affinity 1 Users should have the 40 % Discount forever like @iNfeRnO mentioned. But here is maybe a Problem with the Mac Store because I don´t know if that is Possible. 

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13 hours ago, erutan said:

Again, they're not officially committing to a further update to v1, but would like to do one. You keep ignoring this.

 

I'm not ignoring anything. They have not confirmed they are going to keep V1 updated with basic security and compatibility features, in fact they have said they are not going to do so. What they say they would 'like' to do, and what they say they are 'going' to do, are completely different things.

13 hours ago, erutan said:

There is an upgrade path, it's a 40% discount. Limitations due to how MAS works have been explained multiple times all over the forum.

 

It's not an upgrade path, it's a new product. And as I've explained multiple times, discounts can be applied via the Apple Stores. Repeating that it can't be done, doesn't make it true.

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Well i am frusturated to buy 2020 a product with lifetime updates and in 2 Years not much see any major changes only some small bugfixes and Renewals of Bad implementations and now after 2 Years no updates? But can get for 40% less a new version, say what is the difference from this and subristion model? In the next 1 Year or 2 years same again? And by the way even not a Vector tracer is there implemented. No way Affinity i will not change to any version i will use another Software going back to Adobe where i get all and pay for them the same. Thx and good luck in this new subription style way of Product renewals.

Edited by 3gdfx
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10 hours ago, monzo said:

I'm not ignoring anything. They have not confirmed they are going to keep V1 updated with basic security and compatibility features, in fact they have said they are not going to do so. What they say they would 'like' to do, and what they say they are 'going' to do, are completely different things.

It's not an upgrade path, it's a new product. And as I've explained multiple times, discounts can be applied via the Apple Stores. Repeating that it can't be done, doesn't make it true.

No, they said that they're not officially committing to it, but they'd like to do it. That's not the same as saying that they will not do it.

Using the app bundle discount is much of a hack as just making the price lower. Do bundles work with delisted apps like the v1 versions? They should be delisted as to avoid confusion. I also don't see how the universal license would work - if I have bought the Affinity Suite on the MAS and complete the bundle there, how does it know whether I've bought them for the iPad or have an existing windows license? If you're concerned about getting a true sliding scale for all purchases I'm not sure if the universal license is possible while using app stores (which is optional for Mac and win, but necessary or iPads). Does the windows store even allow bundles?

It's amusing it seems you'd be fine if there was a 40% discount via an app bundle, but are outraged at having to buy something at a 40% discount as a standalone product.

I assume that part of the negotiations with Apple & MS were that they couldn't offer any direct discounts for the Serif store that would undercut the MS & Apple stores.

via https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/170954-household-same-license/#comment-981254

 

12 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

TrevirML

It took a lot of negotiations to get Apple and Microsoft to accept the universal license approach. It's the equivalent of what you're asking for and we won't be changing anything else this release cycle, but thanks for the suggestion 

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I understand that you need to make money, and that licences alone aren't really enough, so new paid versions are necessary.  But I'm not cool with this.

Firstly, all your programs, but especially Publisher, are still lacking many features compared to the competition.  You're not worthy of an upgrade payment at this point.

Secondly, extending the same upgrade price to everyone is terrible treatment of your existing customers.

Thirdly, if you're going to be charging for upgrades so soon, then you had better start supporting Android.  Android apps would have me deem your upgrade demands worthy.

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Firstly, don't buy v2 if it's not worth it for you (it is for me).

Secondly, so what's wrong with an "introductory offer" for new customers?

Thirdly, v1 has been around for about six years, that's hardly "so soon"!

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Affinity Publisher 2 : Affinity Photo 2 : Affinity Designer 2 : (latest release versions) on desktop and iPad

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I used Adobe Photoshop CS3 in 2015! original release was 2007.
8 years after its release...
No (to me known) updates and the last support was changing the licence ownership.

Affinity Photo/Designer/Publisher V1 might be usable for a long time even after getting retired.

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On 11/12/2022 at 2:45 PM, myclay said:

Affinity Photo/Designer/Publisher V1 might be usable for a long time even after getting retired.

The Fun part is, that your Adobe Product AND Affinity has the PANTONE Color usable. Adobe Creative Cloud Users must pay 15 $ per month for them or else they are gone including older Files. Those PANTONE Colors will be converted to black when you don´t have a subscription. I mean don´t get me wrong but Adobe does NOT reduce the Price on the sub but they cut a Feature? On Affinity... Well I have a payed Software that just works and does not need an Internet Connection.

I think also that most of the critic here is, that also NEW Customers get the 40 % Discount. I mean why would you be angry about it? Yes you supported Affinity in V1, like us but please look at the Alternatives:
- Adobe CC: 743,40 € per Year + 90 $ for the PANTONE Color
- GIMP: No CMYK so no.
- Corel Suite: The 2021 is the Buy one Version. The New Version is also subscription based. 
- Other Programs? Yeah exist but mostly subscription or they only have a "Photoshop" Clone, no Vector Program or Publisher.

I mean from the Adobe CC yearly Subscription you can nearly get 7 times the Affinity Suite. YES Adobe offers more but 7 times more?

Don´t think we are a "fanboy" here, because we are also frustrated at some thinks, like the lack of a good Camera Raw Plugin. But hey it will come.

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On 11/12/2022 at 1:39 PM, PaulEC said:

Thirdly, v1 has been around for about six years, that's hardly "so soon"!

Not for all product releases it hasn't, and you're making the assumption that everyone bought them on release.

Unlike the organisation I recommended desktop versions of Photo and Publisher to a few months back, who now own a number of copies of discontinued software.

Not providing a single product based upgrade path for existing customers, and switching off support for their purchases on release of a new product, not only leaves some customers feeling as if their previous support for the company has no value, but also creates a worrying precedent for future releases.

 

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