Master Page confusion

[beast]

Am a beginner with Aff Publisher and preparing to move a book over from InDesign.

Cannot find any replacement for InDesign's ability to compile a book from multiple chapter documents.  Therefore no page/chapter numbering continuity.  (Please do tell me if I've missed something.) So I move on to attempt creation of suitable master pages…

In Document Setup, I choose 'Facing' pages and "Start On Right", and in Spread Setup 45p x 55p6 (DemiOctavo) and margins 4p6, 6p9, i.e. smaller inner than outer.  I then setup a "Chapter Body" Master Page with guides to suit.  It's when I try to add a master for a chapter start page that things go dicky.  I select page (not facing) and then have to swap the left and right margins, so that the narrow margin lies to the left (i.e. inside edge).  I'm then presented with a page with these margins inverted, i.e. wide on left.

I then notice that page 1 in the content (not masters) section also has these margins inverted (wide on the left/inside edge). I can find no way to correct this.

Hate to tell you but this is all about as standard an expectation as it gets, when it comes to books. Yet I'm stuck!

Help!

[Seneca]

22 minutes ago, beast said:

Am a beginner with Aff Publisher and preparing to move a book over from InDesign.

Affinity Publisher is not a clone of indesign.

No Book facility in Publisher at the moment (maybe later), so you may want to either create an entire book in one file or split each chapter in a separate file and combine them later, possibly using Acrobat.

As to the master pages you may want to familiarise yourself with how they work in Publisher as opposed to inDesign.

On the other hand recreating a book from inDesign will let yo do that, (familiarise yourself) but be prepared to think outside of the inDesign box.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, beast said:

when I try to add a master for a chapter start page that things go dicky.  I select page (not facing) and then have to swap the left and right margins, so that the narrow margin lies to the left

It's tricky indeed. Try to avoid single master pages in a facing document. Instead you can use just one half of a spread and assign the master to a page only, not to the complete spread. It will respect its left and right side accordingly. And be aware in AfPub you can assign more than 1 master to a page or spread.

And: master pages don't transfer their size to the assigned pages but their margins and content only.
Use right-clicks on master and page icons to find some commands and go for a walk through "Document Setup..." versus "Spread Setup..." (in main window menu bar).

[thomaso]

2 hours ago, Seneca said:

(familiarise yourself) but be prepared to think outside

Don't you agree there are oddities in correct master page setting and assigning with facing pages? I assume master page as single, not-facing, is one of them. In my experience I am allowed to create one but it seems to still hang on beeing a half of a couple. For instance the margin settings of such a single master page prefer the terms inside and outside instead left and right. And so a confusion can start.

Also it seems if I change the start page from initially left to right then the pages which have the master assigned get confused and don't get full information and keep their margins at the former position while they show the master content of the correct page.

 

On a single master page you have sort of a choice to define margins to left and right ...

... and – for the same single master – sometimes also between inside and outside. Watch out the wrong "left" margin side in the page view.

 

If you use such a single master page in your document then it will confuse margins of even "normal" neighbours:

[Seneca]

3 hours ago, thomaso said:

Don't you agree there are oddities in correct master page setting and assigning with facing pages?

I hope we will get some answers next week when the Publisher is officially released.

I will be particularly interested to watch videos on master pages and the rationale behind them. (Among other things of course) 

[Seneca]

On the other hand I think that single master pages are meant for single pages (Not facing pages).

If you do that then the single master pages are applied correctly meaning respecting left and right margins.

[thomaso]

7 minutes ago, Seneca said:

On the other hand I think that single master pages are meant for single pages (Not facing pages).

The UI offers in double-sided documents in "Spread Properties..." the option of "Single" and "Facing". For each of both the label names change, for instance from "Left" to "Inner".

Possibly it is a bug that "Single" is accessible at all and not grayed-out in documents with facing pages. (There is no way to have a single page between 2-sided spreads)
 

18 minutes ago, Seneca said:

If you do that then the single master pages are applied correctly meaning respecting left and right margins.

Do you mean every single master page must only be either a left or a right one? (and has this property 'just' defined by its margins?) and therefore will result in unwanted margins if used at the wrong page position? ...

However, then it still remains confusing that a margin set as "Left" or "Inner" as property of a single master does appear vice versa in main window: at right edge of that single page. – How should one know whether such a page can be used as left or right page?

And, finally, for what purpose does a single master page switch its margin orientation depending on its position in the pages panel? If it's meant to be either left or right?

[Seneca]

7 minutes ago, thomaso said:

If it's meant to be either left or right?

If you deselect Facing Pages you then get single page documents.

One page master Pages are meant for these pages.

[thomaso]

22 minutes ago, Seneca said:

If you deselect Facing Pages you then get single page documents. 

I might lack in british humor (or humor at all but ...

... I can mix single and facing pages within one document. – Can't you? – and I do see that confusing left-right joke.

Seems you talk possibly about New Document settings whereas me means master page properties.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Seneca said:

interested to watch videos on master pages and the rationale

https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/tutorials/publisher/desktop/video/286534891

Listen to 0:25 – 0:30 min. and compare his pages panel.

[Seneca]

15 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Listen to 0:25 – 0:30 min. and compare his pages panel.

What I'm trying to say (I may be wrong) is that single master pages are only meant for documents created when you untick Facing Pages in the New Document Dialog.

But if you have created a document with facing pages, single master page may not be appropriate for that. (Again, I may be completely wrong)

I'm sure all shall be revealed in the fullness of time (next week). 

 

[000]

I think it's pretty simple: When you have facing pages, it's best to use a facing pages master page, when you work with single pages, use single page master pages.

That Publisher is able to mix them up just shows it's versatility and I can image use cases where that might come handy.

To be honest, I cannot imagine why someone with a facing pages document would even use single page master pages or vice versa without having a plan and knowing why they do that. In my opinion, it's neither the developers nor the softwares task to protect someone from 'getting confused' — either one knows how to use a dtp software and how to set up pages, or one doesn't and then either learns or does something else.