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skyking

[Fixed] 100% becomes CMYK Build when exporting to PDF

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I imported a Affinity Design file which contain an image and text that was only 100% black into Publisher Beta (latest). Color format was CMYK. Other elements in the Publisher file were CMYK and contained 100% black as well. When I exported the Publisher file to a PDF the Designer file, which was 100% black now became a CMYK black. Why is this happening?? I've experienced this before as well. 

Any ideas??

James

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Is there a "K Only" button on the Context Toolbar when you have that file selected with the Move Tool, and if so does that fix the problem?


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.356), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.7.3.475 Beta

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In the context tool bar, it does show the vector file to be 100% black. If you double click on the vector image, in Publisher, it opens to it's art board. All the elements and text show as 100% black not a CMYK build. If I export the Designer file to a PDF, it works just fine meaning if I create a PDF Acrobat sees the file as 100% black. It's only when I import the designer file into Publisher and then export the Publisher file to a PDF that the Designer file is then converted to a process color build not the 100% black it was in Publisher. I hope this makes sense. When converting the file to a PDF publisher is doing something to the Design file.

James

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Your .afpub is probably set to work in RGB.
In "Document Setup" go to "Color" and select at the "Color format" pulldown menu the "CMYK/8" option.

1404122969_documentsetupcolor.jpg.11357fd46f41450684aabedde3e91c5b.jpg

 


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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Thanks - Actually I thought that was the issue but I did have it set for CMYK. Here is another interesting item. I saved the same file as an EPS from Designer then imported it into InDesign CS5. Same thing when I export the InDesign file to Acrobat and check separations, the black still shows as a CMYK build. This is very weird. No clue why creating a PDF out of Affinity Design works just fine but out of Affinity Publisher or InDesign, the file gets converted to a four color black build. I'm stumped on this one.

Thanks again

James

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I'd like to look at this issue in AfPub. Can you upload the affecting PDF exported from Designer?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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@skyking, in your pdf not all of black looking texts are pure 100% Black, but those also remain 100 K when I export a PDF (print preset).

On page 3 only the address (upper left) is 100 K. In PDF it has 100 K, too, if overprint is deselected in PDF view. With active overprint view it's more than 100 K because of the additional background colors.

So, I can't detect an issue between input and output. can you describe the image area or show a screenshot which spots are affected in your experience?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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On the page with the graphic of a wrench and car and text underneath. That is the issue image. That is the item that came from Designer. The same image is on the other page. All other elements are OK. Make sense? BTW, there are three pages - just check the image with the "wrench and car and the text below".

James

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Your description fits perfectly to both pages 1 + 3 of your pdf – which page no. is the problematic one?

When I open your .afdesign I do see only the wrench/car/textline, all in 100 K, – so it is not the creating document used for your .pdf you had uploaded.
Can you also upload the file (an .afpub?) of which the uploaded .pdf got exported?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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BTW, screen shots of the image I am talking about. Created 100K, outputs from Publisher at a four color build.

Screen Shot 2019-05-31 at 3.52.36 PM.png

Screen Shot 2019-05-31 at 3.53.01 PM.png

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OK, I'll attach the actual Publisher file. Unfortunately you will need the links. Maybe the better idea is for me to put it all in a folder and sharing it with you on OneDrive. The upload failed anyway.

Will that work? 

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7 minutes ago, skyking said:

BTW, screen shots of the image I am talking about. Created 100K, outputs from Publisher at a four color build.

So what?

I know these images from your pdf. – But they don't neither answer my recent question (which page?) nor do they tell what you have done with the affected elements in your .afpub before export.

2 minutes ago, skyking said:

Unfortunately you will need the links.

What for? – Does that mean your uploaded .afdesign is NOT the graphic file used in your .afpub for export?
– If yes: why did you send the .afdesign?
– If not: I don't need other linked elements, just your .afpub. You might delete all other elements before uploading (I don't care).


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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The change of 100% Black does not happen on PDF export.

It comes with the .afdesign and occurs already in the .afpub before export.
I assume a conflict of using different color profiles for
a.) .afdesign ( us sheetfeed uncoated ) and
b.) .afpub  ( us wb coated swop v2 )

As soon I set your .afpub document profile to the same as your .afdesign ( us sheetfeed uncoated )
then an exported PDf shows in Acrobat the 100% Black if there the viewing simulation-profile gets set that same, too.

One reason might be an issue in profile handling in AfPub. I noticed in earlier betas that the button "Assign" next to "Convert" seems to have no function. The default value is "Convert". If "Assign" gets selected then after closing + opening this window again "Convert" appears as selected.

Your artboard color profile:

1650180469_artboardprofile.jpg.ad825a76899110e2bdc1650d55daba28.jpg

Your .afpub color profile:

1482240863_afpubprofile.thumb.jpg.06af74b076d8311eb9fa5eabcc32a8ea.jpg

 

 

TEST  – A Problem with color profile conversion:

If I open your .afdesign in AfPublisher and copy an element from its artboard to a new AfPublisher document with my standard profile "ISO coated v2 ECI" then the copied element's  color becomes obviously lighter when pasted into my document.

Then, if I copy that copy back onto the artboard of yours ... and repeat that process several times ...it results in a series of gray scale:

1535117599_wrenchnewdoccopies.jpg.7e2e2c0a266496335cb3c9fefeed30e3.jpg

Each of this wrenches above is a copy from the artboard of your placed .afdesign, whereas each single copying/pasting was done twice for the next grey level:
1. copied from the artboard of your .afpub into my new .afpub document 
––>  2. copied back to the artboard
––––> 3. copied from the artboard again to the new .afpub file ... etc. ...

I have no idea how copying/pasting can affect a color that way but I assume an issue of color profile handling in AfPub.

The problem first occurs already without any copying / pasting within your .afpub, where on the document page the colors of the placed elements are slightly lighter than on the placed artboard. There the lightening begins.

 

So, as a workaround for your files: Use only 1 color profile for Designer –> Publisher –> PDF.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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Many thanks for all you help on this issue. I did the same. Created a file in Designer with a box that was 100% black and one that was around 270% four color build. The profile I used was sheetfed uncoated. I then created a Afpub document with the same profile then placed the Designer file I created with the same uncoated sheetfed uncoated. I then exported the Afpub file to a PDF but embedded the profile. When I went into Acrobat and checked separations, the 100% was now a four color build and of course the other object was still a four color build but not the same percentages I used in Designer. I then exported another PDF from Afpub but this time I unchecked. To embed the profile and when in Acrobat and checked separations the 100% was indeed 100% black and the other element the correct four color build. So it does appear there is a work around but I think this issue should be provided to the developers as this could be a issue in the print industry. Many times the creative will create the files and provide them to the printer who upon receiving the file ma not know what profile was used plus the printer will use their own press or digital profile.

Any additional thoughts?? Thanks again. I’ll mess more with this later today. I love Affinity Photo and Designer and it’s nice to have a option against Adobe and their subscription model. I also love having both apps on my iPad Pro.

Thanks again!

James 

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1 hour ago, skyking said:

I then exported another PDF from Afpub but this time I unchecked (...) embed the profile (...) separations the 100% was indeed 100% black (...). So it does appear there is a work around but I think this issue should be provided to the developers

This your experience sounds contradictory to me: As if only not embedding an images profile could result in not converting its colors. Or did you toggle in your tests the option "Convert image color spaces", too?

Although we have the option "Convert image colors" next to "Embed profile", I miss a 3rd variant: "Assign profile", which neither converts colors nor embeds their profiles (and increases the PDF size), but only information about all profile names passes.

I am quite confident the developers are aware about these tricky color space issues.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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OK, I did another "experiment". In Afdesigner I opened the Vince's file again and changed the profile to Sheetfed uncoated. I created a new Afpub doc using the same profile. I then placed the Afdesigner file, with the same profile,  and exported it two ways. One with the embedded profile and one without the embedded profile.The PDF with the embedded profile had all the black as a four color build. The one without the embedded profile had all the black as 100% as it should be.

Second "experiment". I left the Afdesign file as Uncoated sheetfed (same as before). I then created a new Afpub doc with a different profile (coated sheetfed). This time embedded or non-embedded both the PDF exports were a four color build. So right now it seems that you want both the Afdesign and Afpub docs to have the same profile. 

I did try changing the Afpub profile to Sheetfed coated and as you said that did not work at all - embedded or not.

I also left the Afdesign profile as Sheetfed Uncoated then assigning the Afpub to the same when I exported to a PDF with the same results. 

Or for now, it does seem that is the answer - not a good one but an answer. Keep the profiles the same in Afdesigner and Afpub, don't embed and it works. I tested in my original Afpub file and that worked.

I do hope the developers know about this issue and resolve it. BTW, I heard a great interview with Serif's Managing Director this on the Pod Cast TWIP (This week in Photo). Nice interview -Looking forward to versions of 1.7 photo/designer.

Thanks again for all your help. This has been very helpful since I work In printing industry (offset and high end digital).

James

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If I test with you file, first I need to correct the stroke colours (black quadri instead of only 100% K).

If I import (place) in APub and the document and the file have the same colour profile :

  • export to PDF X-1a or X-4 (with the same ICC profile) = logo only 100% K

Other PDF version or the logo in greyscale result in CMYK black.

 

Since using PDF X-1a + profiles is usually a safe option for PDF for print, perhaps you should use this unless your printer ask another version.

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Wosven - Thanks for the info. Tomorrow I’m gong to try that as well. What really interesting is usually when the PDF comes into us (the printer) we use our press profile or digital file, for example Indigo. Most clients today supply a PDF file unlike the old das when the supplied a folder with all the Indesgin or Quark files. I’ll let you know what I find.

Thanks again,

James

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Thanks for your help with this bug. We have now resolved the problem and will make the fix available in the next release of Affinity Publisher on your platform.

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Many thanks for helping resolve this issue. You might want to let the developers know I had the same issue in Designer and Photo.

Thanks again!!

James

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