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Steven123

[By Design] Designer: Gradient to 0% opacity includes colour

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Hi,

Great software, really enjoying it.

I think this is a bug, doesn't seem like correct behaviour.

 

When adding a gradient, going from White, 100% opacity, to Red 0% opacity, you can see red in the gradient.

I don't understand how the red is being calculated, 100% white to 0% red should mean there's no red in the gradient.

 

background.jpg.13b06ed2c90e4b5c856713cbfbf86724.jpg

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I’m afraid I don’t understand your logic. If you had a gradient going from white to red, both with 100% opacity, you would expect it to be pink with 100% opacity at the halfway point, wouldn’t you? And if it went from white with 100% opacity to white with 0% opacity it would be white with 50% opacity at the halfway point, wouldn’t it? In the scenario that you’ve outlined it’s a combination of the two, so at the halfway point it’s pink with 50% opacity.


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.2.2 (iPad Air 2)

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Yeah in my mind the red doesnt exist because it's at 0%, so it wouldn't be a mix of the two situations you described

It's example colour also disappears when you put it to 0% opacity. When going to 0% opacity you don't want to mix that color, you want to remove it.

So it would be mixing white with nothing

 

I suppose Affinity treats the opacity and colour gradients separately, whereas my intuition combines them

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46 minutes ago, Steven123 said:

When adding a gradient, going from White, 100% opacity, to Red 0% opacity, you can see red in the gradient.

I don't understand how the red is being calculated, 100% white to 0% red should mean there's no red in the gradient.

If you don't want any red, then why are you going to 0% red instead of 0% white?


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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20 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

If you don't want any red, then why are you going to 0% red instead of 0% white?

because it saves a click

the colour is a remnant from a previous gradient

 

it's something i've banged my head against quite a few times now, especially if its a similar colour, trying to figure out why the gradient seems off
The interface gives no feedback that it's mixing with a colour, if you set it to 0% opacity

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38 minutes ago, Steven123 said:

The interface gives no feedback that it's mixing with a colour, if you set it to 0% opacity

It’s only 0% opacity at the right-hand end. I don’t see any red there in your screenshot: I see nothing but the transparency checkerboard.


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.2.2 (iPad Air 2)

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2 hours ago, Steven123 said:

the colour is a remnant from a previous gradient

Yes, this is a very unpleasant Affinity behavior.

 

 


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.7.3.481.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 1909, Build 18363.476.
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2 hours ago, Alfred said:

It’s only 0% opacity at the right-hand end. I don’t see any red there in your screenshot: I see nothing but the transparency checkerboard.

Right-hand end is correct - any red color, but why is in middle area? If left side gradient is white, and right side is without red, why is red color in your middle?


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.7.3.481.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 1909, Build 18363.476.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.

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33 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Right-hand end is correct - any red color, but why is in middle area? If left side gradient is white, and right side is without red, why is red color in your middle?

As I wrote earlier:

4 hours ago, Alfred said:

I’m afraid I don’t understand your logic. If you had a gradient going from white to red, both with 100% opacity, you would expect it to be pink with 100% opacity at the halfway point, wouldn’t you? And if it went from white with 100% opacity to white with 0% opacity it would be white with 50% opacity at the halfway point, wouldn’t it? In the scenario that you’ve outlined it’s a combination of the two, so at the halfway point it’s pink with 50% opacity.

 


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.2.2 (iPad Air 2)

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51 minutes ago, Alfred said:

I’m afraid I don’t understand your logic.

I’m afraid I don’t understand your logic.

Because right-hand end is not "Red color with 100 % opacity",
image.png.8f2106ed9e1eec0849bfc00946b9ff30.png

and "0% opacity",
image.png.bed3a19424f5278ca24d96e59ba3cd38.png

but "Red with 0% opacity", which means "no color with full transparency".
image.png.691d5f93b186f5d95a62e796ba3bccb6.png

I understand that they simplify the calculation.
They first calculate the transition from start color to end color, and then apply the transition from start opacity to end opacity.
In my opinion, this is not correct calculation method.

I wonder how they do it in other programs.


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.7.3.481.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 1909, Build 18363.476.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.

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8 hours ago, Pšenda said:

[Right-hand end is] "Red with 0% opacity", which means "no color with full transparency".

Not so! “0% opacity” means “100% transparency” or “full transparency”, so “Red with 0% opacity” means “Red with full transparency”, not “No colour with full transparency”. Halfway between 0% transparency and 100% transparency is 50% transparency, and halfway between white and red is pink, so halfway between 0% transparent (i.e. opaque) white and 100% transparent (i.e. fully transparent) red is 50% transparent pink.


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.2.2 (iPad Air 2)

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Yeah there's different ways to approach it. I see where you're coming from Alfred.

 

I don't have access to photoshop, but Clip Studio Paint and Krita treat transparancy as a seperate colour, So it's either a gradient from Foreground colour to Background colour, or a gradient from Foreground to Transparancy, which bypasses this entire situation (and is also less flexible, because you can't make a gradient to 50% transparancy).

IMHO a visual gradient from A to B should contain only visual elements from A and B, but that's just an opinion. I just wanted to flag this for the Affinity team, and I'm sure they can judge this as being very low priority in the grand scheme of things :)

I'm just daydreaming about a situation in future years where I mightl have saved myself a few thousand clicks by this tweak ;)
 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Steven123 said:

IMHO a visual gradient from A to B should contain only visual elements from A and B,

Yes, I would expect it as well - the gradient should create a transition between color/opacity/noise that I "see" at point A, to color/opacity/noise that I "see" at point B.

If I don't see any color in point B (let me quote @Alfred"I don’t see any red there in your screenshot: I see nothing but the transparency checkerboard." ), the sudden pinking in the middle of the gradient is unexpected.


Affinity Store: Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 1.7.3.481.
Windows 10 Pro, Version 1909, Build 18363.476.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080.
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080.

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Hi all,

This is working as expected. Alfred has explained how it works perfectly. 

Issue closed as By Design. 

Thanks,

Gabe. 

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On 5/29/2019 at 12:17 PM, GabrielM said:

Hi all,

This is working as expected. Alfred has explained how it works perfectly. 

Issue closed as By Design. 

Thanks,

Gabe. 

...and the Court is dismissed. :S


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10 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

...and the Court is dismissed. :S

Keep in mind Affinity is not treating this differently than (at least) other systems (I know of). It's just technically working this way under the hood for most, if not all, systems. Colors are different channels than transparancy, so it just makes sense. And why go from white to red if you don't want to see red? If it's only to keep the click to reset the red, than that's something else that might be solved better, but has nothing to do with the workings of the gradient.


 

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12 hours ago, Friksel said:

And why go from white to red

Well, I want to go from Color-A to transparent and not from Color-A to Color-A and reduce the transparency to 0%.


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38 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Well, I want to go from Color-A to transparent and not from Color-A to Color-A and reduce the transparency to 0%.

I don’t think it’s possible to set a gradient stop to ‘No Fill’. As far as I’m aware, we always have to choose a colour.

Even if we could choose to make it transparent without an underlying colour, what would be the difference between a gradient from white to transparent and (as at present) 100% opaque white to 0% opaque white?


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.2.2 (iPad Air 2)

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1 hour ago, Alfred said:

I don’t think it’s possible to set a gradient stop to ‘No Fill

Why not? They did such a revolutionary job with "StudioLink". It should be trivial for them. :)


Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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