Numerical scaling of groups doesn’t affect type size

[Matthias]

I know I can scale groups containing type (like a logo with a subline) by dragging the handle sticking out from the lower right of the bounding box. But that is sometimes not what I need as it is not precise enough. So I scale by entering formulas or new sizes in the transformation panel (or studio?). What happens then is the text box is correctly scaled but not the type size of the text. I end up with huge or tiny text artifacts, depending on scale factor, and have to enter properly calculated text sizes to get everything back to normal (just smaller or larger). Which is never what I would want to achieve.

Of course, there might be a use case for this text box behavior in a group which I just don’t see, but a “Scale with Group“checkbox in the text palette could solve the problem. I’d kept it checked on all the time …

[walt.farrell]

That does sound like a useful new option.

In the meantime, as a workaround, you might try:

1. Selecting the group in the Layers panel and duplicating it.
2. Transforming the duplicate as you need via the Transform panel.
3. Reducing the opacity of the duplicate group.
4. Selecting the original group, and dragging it via the scaling handle until its outline matches the transformed duplicate.
5. Deleting the dupicate.

Your text size will be wrong in the duplicate, but it should be right in the original after step 4.

[Matthias]

Thanks Walt. Due to snapping your description is a possible workaround. Do you see any reason why type size should not scale inside a group? Or is this just an oversight?

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, Matthias said:

Do you see any reason why type size should not scaled inside a group? Or is this just an oversight?

I have no idea, and will be interested in what others have to say, including any of the Serif staff that may choose to comment.

[Ben]

It depends. If the text is art text, it will scale.  If it is a text frame - the frame will scale, but the font size remains constant - the text will reflow.

 

Notice that there is an extra widget for resizing with the Move tool - this sizes the font.  At present, this is the only tool that will pass on the size change to the font.

[Matthias]

14 minutes ago, Ben said:

If it is a text frame - the frame will scale, but the font size remains constant - the text will reflow.

Thanks Ben.

Wouldn’t it still make sense to have a choice, for example with a checkbox describes above? Even with a text frame I more often than not want the type size  to scale along with the frame.

 

16 minutes ago, Ben said:

there is an extra widget for resizing with the Move tool - this sizes the font.

A widget? You mean the handle one the lower right? Yeah. But it does not work with the precision I need. With a numerically scaled duplicate and snapping of the hand scaled original group it kind of works, though.

[Ben]

Yes - another option might make sense.  Just no one else has asked for until now.

 

We've tried to be careful about to adding too many options all over the place though.  The transform panel is supposed to be simple.

[Matthias]

4 minutes ago, Ben said:

The transform panel is supposed to be simple.

Maybe put it in the text panel, Ben, just like with the stroke width scaling option in the strokes panel

[walt.farrell]

8 minutes ago, Matthias said:

Maybe put it in the text panel, Ben, just like with the stroke width scaling option in the strokes panel

There is no text panel in Designer. There's a Text Frame panel in Publisher, which might be a good place for some kind of scaling option. But Designer doesn't have that panel.

[Matthias]

I meant this one. Or maybe the context toolbar.

[Ben]

16 minutes ago, Matthias said:

Maybe put it in the text panel, Ben, just like with the stroke width scaling option in the strokes panel

But, you'd then have a setting in unrelated area of UI that affects how changes applied by the Transform panel work.  Not great UX.

This is something we'll have to think through....

[Ben]

Incidentally, the stroke size option is a property of the selected object.  The feature you are referring to is transformations applied through the Transform panel.

 

We already have a mechanism for text that sizes as a property of the object - the use of Frame text or Art text.

[walt.farrell]

57 minutes ago, Matthias said:

I meant this one. Or maybe the context toolbar.

 

Thanks. That's the Character panel, in English.

[Matthias]

22 hours ago, Ben said:

But, you'd then have a setting in unrelated area of UI that affects how changes applied by the Transform panel work.

I don’t want to harp on this topic forever because as you said there already are two types of text. But isn’t the scaling behavior of type size just as related to the Character panel as the scaling behavior of stroke width is to the Stroke panel?

Another logical place for such a checkbox might be context toolbar for groups. And there it could also apply to the stroke width of any stroke that happens to reside in that group, overriding individual stroke scaling settings. Because there are reasons to keep stroke width/type size when scaling but I also run into situations in which I’d  like to change this temporarily and universally. Like when I group and scale a whole artwork/layout for presentation purposes.

Edit: I think this is actually a good idea :-)