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First time incorporating Capture One Pro into my workflow. No more Lightroom, and officially, no more Adobe. Feels great. Have been using AP since pretty much it's debut, and I'm always impressed at just how powerful it is, not to mention the unbeatable price. I now own licenses on both Mac, PC, and iPad for both AP and AD. Keep up the good work boys!

_DRB1288 1.jpg

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It is a fine portrait with conservative lighting. However the sharpening of the skin (or makeup) is a no go. You don't want to emphasize the texture of skin or makeup. "Experts" from the Internet University rate my favorite and expensive portrait lens low because it is not sharp as hell. Professional photographers adore it because it renders faces like we see them. You want an organic look. Sharpen the eyes, eyebrows, hair in focus ever so slightly, lips a bit, bling in focus. Local contrast in Capture Pro rarely has any role to play in a portrait. Perhaps for local adjustments. Remember amateurs on the internet yell SHARPNESS SHARPNESS and compare index numbers from DxO to rate sensors and lenses. Professionals judge the actual rendering of the motive. Capture One renders images organic and beautifully - so think twice before touching sharpness and clarity. Especially on portraits.

I am no fan of retouching skin into a plastic surface but it is never my task to attract attention to powder on the skin or the skin itself.

This is a lazy and quick edit just to prove my point - view and compare at 100% - the browser softens the image a bit I can see. 

TIP: When hair starts to look "digital" you did something wrong.

image.thumb.png.c0fdf0e732e0ca606f94a4a1287d8621.png

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Jowday - Thank you for the feedback, though I don't ever remember asking you for it. I see from several of your unsolicited critiques on other's work that you must clearly have an advanced set of skills that most of us aren't lucky enough to possess, and like to talk about your "expensive" gear. Would you be so kind as to share some original work and provide explanations on how you achieved such mastery? I'd really like the opportunity to improve.

That being said. My actual process here included no sharpening. I happen to be using an extremely sharp lens. A Sony 85mm f/1.8 to be exact and this thing is insanely sharp, but who cares? This set of images was shot at f/8 at ISO 200. I actually lowered clarity to -50 because the image was too sharp OOC. Maybe the lens is not expensive enough? In AP, I performed a frequency separation just so I can blend the the skin-tone a bit. I did this on the low frequency layer by the way. That's the only sharpening that was done. The only other edits were with color and tone matching. Again, the sharpening sliders were never touched. You may be referring to the addition on the tonal contrast which I could agree, could be toned down a bit, but in print this image looks a bit softer than it does on my monitor (it's a pro monitor too, though maybe not expensive enough). You probably know this, but in Capture One, the app will apply a default amount of sharpness based on the camera model you're using. In my case, using a Sony A7III ( I got a deal and it wasn't too expensive), Capture One applied it's default level of sharpening for that model, and it was not moved.  Also, unlike many, I don't produce images for the sole purpose of posting on IG or FB. I print all client work (on a relatively inexpensive Pro printer), and a bit of sharpness is welcomed when printing. Still, none was added beyond the default.

Further. One thing I've learned over the years is that art/photography is subjective and there are actually no rules. Amateurs on the internet love to discuss rules and right's/wrongs, problem is, it's all bulls*&t. You create the art you want to create. If others don't like it, so be it. When you go around and present yourself as the all-knowing expert on a subject as subjective as art or photography, you achieve nothing but appearing pretentious, arrogant and frankly, like one of those "amateurs on the internet" you speak of. Again, if you have something valuable to add, please do, I'd love to look deeper into this. In the future, try to offer critiques when asked, otherwise keep your opinions to yourself. When you come out of the gate bashing someone else's work, you've already lost. This post was not a request for a critique. It was a post to share work created using a product made by this company. That's it. Why some people feel the need to critique others without be asked is beyond me I guess. Maybe too much time on their hands? It's a mystery I'll never solve, I'm sure.

Lastly. I really don't care if you like my work or how the internet rates your "expensive" portrait lens. In my experience, the people who like to talk about how expensive their gear is, usually produce crap work. Just saying. Not every image I produce will be a great one, I know this, I learned and accepted this years ago. But I'm not arrogant enough to presume I have all the answers or that I'm better than anyone else in a subjective medium. Post some of your work, I'd love to see it. If I like it, I'll let ya know. If I don't, I won't feel the need to critique your work as your art is yours and there would be no need. Unless of course you wanted a critique. Then I'd happily let you know.  Take care!

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Here's another one for the hyper-critical "experts"...

Image one is straight OOC into Capture One Pro 12. No edits whatsoever, only default settings applied by Capture One. Image two is the edit from Affinity Photo. No sharpening was applied just as in the last image. Clarity reduced to -34, performed a frequency separation in AP just to remove some random distractions from the face. Color graded and tonal contrast applied in Nik Color Effects Pro. Exported as jpeg at 90%. If you were able to zoom into the eyes at 100% on the RAW images, you'd see the eyes are just as sharp in both images. Again these images appear softer in print than they do on screen.

_DRB1298-ooc.jpg

_DRB1298-edit.jpg

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She has pretty eyes.


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo, Publisher Beta 1.7.0.140, Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials Instagram & Flickr - Affinity Live 19th June 2019

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11 hours ago, DannyBCreative said:

Jowday - Thank you for the feedback, though I don't ever remember asking you for it. I see from several of your unsolicited critiques on other's work that you must clearly have an advanced set of skills that most of us aren't lucky enough to possess, and like to talk about your "expensive" gear. Would you be so kind as to share some original work and provide explanations on how you achieved such mastery? I'd really like the opportunity to improve.

That being said. My actual process here included no sharpening. I happen to be using an extremely sharp lens. A Sony 85mm f/1.8 to be exact and this thing is insanely sharp, but who cares? This set of images was shot at f/8 at ISO 200. I actually lowered clarity to -50 because the image was too sharp OOC. Maybe the lens is not expensive enough? In AP, I performed a frequency separation just so I can blend the the skin-tone a bit. I did this on the low frequency layer by the way. That's the only sharpening that was done. The only other edits were with color and tone matching. Again, the sharpening sliders were never touched. You may be referring to the addition on the tonal contrast which I could agree, could be toned down a bit, but in print this image looks a bit softer than it does on my monitor (it's a pro monitor too, though maybe not expensive enough). You probably know this, but in Capture One, the app will apply a default amount of sharpness based on the camera model you're using. In my case, using a Sony A7III ( I got a deal and it wasn't too expensive), Capture One applied it's default level of sharpening for that model, and it was not moved.  Also, unlike many, I don't produce images for the sole purpose of posting on IG or FB. I print all client work (on a relatively inexpensive Pro printer), and a bit of sharpness is welcomed when printing. Still, none was added beyond the default.

Further. One thing I've learned over the years is that art/photography is subjective and there are actually no rules. Amateurs on the internet love to discuss rules and right's/wrongs, problem is, it's all bulls*&t. You create the art you want to create. If others don't like it, so be it. When you go around and present yourself as the all-knowing expert on a subject as subjective as art or photography, you achieve nothing but appearing pretentious, arrogant and frankly, like one of those "amateurs on the internet" you speak of. Again, if you have something valuable to add, please do, I'd love to look deeper into this. In the future, try to offer critiques when asked, otherwise keep your opinions to yourself. When you come out of the gate bashing someone else's work, you've already lost. This post was not a request for a critique. It was a post to share work created using a product made by this company. That's it. Why some people feel the need to critique others without be asked is beyond me I guess. Maybe too much time on their hands? It's a mystery I'll never solve, I'm sure.

Lastly. I really don't care if you like my work or how the internet rates your "expensive" portrait lens. In my experience, the people who like to talk about how expensive their gear is, usually produce crap work. Just saying. Not every image I produce will be a great one, I know this, I learned and accepted this years ago. But I'm not arrogant enough to presume I have all the answers or that I'm better than anyone else in a subjective medium. Post some of your work, I'd love to see it. If I like it, I'll let ya know. If I don't, I won't feel the need to critique your work as your art is yours and there would be no need. Unless of course you wanted a critique. Then I'd happily let you know.  Take care!

I've got to say that I laughed my head off while reading this response; not in a derogatory way you understand but in knowing support.

Thanks for the best laugh and most amusing read I've ever had on this forum. :)


Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

These are not my own words but I sure like this quote.

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2 hours ago, Smee Again said:

I didn't perceive the suggestion offered as being critical, in fact I found it quite informative.

Perhaps re-reading the post would help.

Thank you @Smee Again for a smarter and more mature interpretation of my post. :)

The drama queen reply from Danny is indeed funny and made me laugh too because it is SUCH an extreme, childish 360 degree Chewbacca overeaction. And totally wrong. :D

My advice is to think twice before posting such a load of feelings. You really exposed yourself there. 

The info in my post is pretty much common knowledge, so chill.

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1 hour ago, Smee Again said:

I didn't perceive the suggestion offered as being critical, in fact I found it quite informative.

Perhaps re-reading the post would help.

Hi Smee,

A critique is by nature, informative. Problem isn't information, it's information based on one's own opinion and nothing more, and on top of that an opinion that wasn't asked for. Perhaps if you read her post again?

" However the sharpening of the skin (or makeup) is a no go". This was assumed and incorrect.

" so think twice before touching sharpness and clarity. Especially on portraits". Again, assumed and incorrect.

Her entire reply to my post was a critique. Her reasoning to me seemed to be one of superior knowledge in a subjective medium where her own opinion should be taken as gospel. If I'm wrong, then so be it, wouldn't be the firs time. Also, this is not a personal dig on Jowday. I don't know her, she may be the greatest person on earth. My issue is with this phenomenon on the internet and specifically with people in the photography community who feel the compelling need to offer advice, or to "educate" others when no such advice was requested.

I'm far from alone in this feeling, and it amazes me that it exists in the first place. I speak my mind, I'm brutally honest but I don't offer advice unless explicitly asked to do so.

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20 minutes ago, Jowday said:

Thank you for a better and more mature interpretation of my post.

The drama queen reply from Danny is indeed funny because it is such an extreme overeaction. And totally wrong.

My advice is to Think twice before posting such a load of bull. You really exposed yourself.

The info in my post is pretty much common knowledge, so chill.

Again, please post original work so I can all learn why it is you seem so confident in your approach. I'd actually love to see some professional head shots you've taken. We can discuss what your retouching approach was/is and maybe share some techniques. Let's do it!

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Still a kindergarten kid reaction. xD Take the advice or not. Agree with feedback or don’t. But stay calm like an adult.

 

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3 hours ago, Jowday said:

Still a kindergarten kid reaction. xD Take the advice or not. Agree with feedback or don’t. But stay calm like an adult.

 

Jowday, thank you for continuing to prove my point with every one of your posts!

For clarification, I'll add this:

I'm no stranger to critiques. In fact, I have on many occasions submitted work for critique. This was always a deliberate act in an effort to gain knowledge.  Every photographer I sought out for a critique was a PROFESSIONAL with a workflow and/or skill-set that I found valuable, and they all had impressive portfolios that served as proof of that skill-set/workflow. See the difference here? In case you don't, please allow me to explain further.

See, I never asked for your opinion. We've established this. Why you feel compelled to offer advice or feedback when your opinion was not requested, speaks more about your superiority complex than anything else. Again, this is apparently your thing as seen by many posts on the forums. I have now repeatedly asked you to post your work so as to provide a basis for your above statements. You have yet to. What's the hold-up? Post your work, or send a link to your portfolio. If you truly have work that I find (in my opinion) to be something I like and want to learn from, than I will happily ask for your opinions, advice, tips/tricks, feedback, etc... I would find tremendous value in such an exchange and would be excited to learn something new!

As for my being calm. I know you probably can't tell, but I'm as calm as a cucumber as they say. My first reply for some reason was entirely in bold, and I wasn't able to change that. I'm chillin', workin' on some client work, drinking some lime Bubly (like La Croix only better. In my opinion) and listening to some good tunes. I'm relaxed and in a great mood. While you continue to attack my character, mental and emotional state, you still have not posted anything worth taking you seriously. I wish that wasn't so. I want to see your work. I want to see great work and great photography, so I can be inspired, and excited to learn from you and take your advice seriously. Without any real reliable evidence of your work which forms the basis for your original critique and continued nonsense, I'm afraid your perceived expertise goes no further than the "amateurs on the internet" you eluded to in your first post. Don't worry though, the internet is a big place and you're not alone. But please, please prove me wrong. I really do want you to win here...  help me out.

For shits and giggles, since you keep referring to me as a child or a person lacking the maturity to grace these forums. I'd like to ask why it is you hide behind of the name of mythical creature created for a fictional TV series, and a birth date that makes you 150 years old? Come out and play. Be a real person, and stop playing the nerd who knows everything it's not a good look.

On that note, I've now spent way too much time with this. :)Please provide compelling examples of your work, or just stop posting on this thread. Go tell someone else how you'd do it better. Or better yet, don't and focus on your own work instead. Cheers!

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3 hours ago, DannyBCreative said:

Hi Smee,

A critique is by nature, informative. Problem isn't information, it's information based on one's own opinion and nothing more, and on top of that an opinion that wasn't asked for. Perhaps if you read her post again?

" However the sharpening of the skin (or makeup) is a no go". This was assumed and incorrect.

" so think twice before touching sharpness and clarity. Especially on portraits". Again, assumed and incorrect.

Her entire reply to my post was a critique. Her reasoning to me seemed to be one of superior knowledge in a subjective medium where her own opinion should be taken as gospel. If I'm wrong, then so be it, wouldn't be the firs time. Also, this is not a personal dig on Jowday. I don't know her, she may be the greatest person on earth. My issue is with this phenomenon on the internet and specifically with people in the photography community who feel the compelling need to offer advice, or to "educate" others when no such advice was requested.

I'm far from alone in this feeling, and it amazes me that it exists in the first place. I speak my mind, I'm brutally honest but I don't offer advice unless explicitly asked to do so.

You must admit that the image does appear to have been sharpened, even if you didn't.

10 minutes of Frequency Seperation (no, not a finished shot, just a quickie job) would have helped.

image_example.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Smee Again said:

You must admit that the image does appear to have been sharpened, even if you didn't.

10 minutes of Frequency Seperation (no, not a finished shot, just a quickie job) would have helped.

image_example.jpg

Thank you Smee. Remember, all my work is printed. So what you see on screen is not what you see in print. If you ever do any of your own printing, you'll see this time and time again. This is why most apps have a "sharpen for print" option (which I don't use  by the way). The image appears über sharp as a converted, scaled down JPEG in sRGB. But, I print from a full-res, uncompressed, TIFF or RAW (if no edits are needed) in Adobe RGB, not that color gamut has any bearing on sharpness, I'm just explaining my process. What I see in print with regards to edge sharpness is not the same as what is seen in this jpeg. Remember I wasn't posting this in an attempt to know why my image was so sharp. I was posting to express my excitement in ditching Adobe officially and building a workflow with Capture One Pro and Affinity Photo. Take a look at the other images I posted. Look at the sharpness. Right OOC the image is insanely sharp. Even with a negative value on clarity, the sharpness is intense. This I understand is the nature this particular lens, and it requires some work to soften. BUT, I'd rather have an image be too sharp and be able dial it back, then have one too soft and be SOL.

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Back in the day (film) for female studio portraits/headshots I quite often used a lens UV filter lightly sprayed with hairspray (for a flattering soft glow) ...

Magic!


https://www.peterdinnan.com/     photography with elements of mood, abstraction, pareidolia, gestalt and the morphics

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2 hours ago, PedroOfOz said:

Back in the day (film) for female studio portraits/headshots I quite often used a lens UV filter lightly sprayed with hairspray (for a flattering soft glow) ...

Magic!

Back in 1979 or 1980 I actually made an adapter for a vignette device (soft focus) from the enlarger so that I could use it on my cameras. It opened and closed like the aperture in the camera by rotating the outer ring, thus varying the softness of the shot. Since the blades were semi clear plastic, it also added a bit of a glow.

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2 hours ago, PedroOfOz said:

Back in the day (film) for female studio portraits/headshots I quite often used a lens UV filter lightly sprayed with hairspray (for a flattering soft glow) ...

Magic!

This sounds like a cool idea. I've heard of people using thin coats of grease but never hairspray. Though with today's software options you can avoid the mess. :)

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3 hours ago, DannyBCreative said:

I've heard of people using thin coats of grease but never hairspray

The hairspray drys so it's kinda semi permanent :)


https://www.peterdinnan.com/     photography with elements of mood, abstraction, pareidolia, gestalt and the morphics

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Working for a printed output is different to backlit screens/web etc.

The image produced in a digital studio/darkroom can and mostly is wrong until it is printed.

Personally I over sharpen for web posting and this has been commented on, then when I have not done so the image has been 'critiqued' as soft. Go figure - I believe is the American response to this circumstance.

My older inkjet prints are softer than I would like now but pleased the customer at the time. It is quite an expensive step but trial prints sent by mail for approval often save embarrasment.

Oh as an aside. If your image is what you consider art then I think it is more a like/don't like response required and a possible reason.

Personally my images drift towards the art side and away from the reportage or correct record of the subject so critiques no longer concern me. If I ask about a specific part or feel of the image it is usually to try and find a method that will give a closer representation of my intent (skill set improvement).

Like/don't like good. Tell me what I have done 'wrong' NAH!. You have no concept of what I was trying to do - unless I have told ya!-_-.

Oh yer. Sellotape over the the end of a toilet roll was my first wedding filter. The bride did laugh (luckily) but also liked the result.:D That was one 40 years ago Hmmmm best forgotten.

 


MacPro (late 2013), 24Gb Ram, D300GPU, Eizo 24",1TB Samsung 850 Archive, 2x2Tb Time Machine,X-t2 plus 50-140mm & 18-55mm. AP, FRV & RawFile Converter (Silkypix).

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If you post on here you should be expecting opinions and critiques otherwise don't post. If you want people to only say complementary things then put that in big bold letters at the top. Otherwise if someone has a negative opinion but they've spent the time to explain why, then that gives you the opportunity to look at what you've done and see if you think it's valid.  If it is then you can do something about it. That's one way you improve.Pretending it's art therefore no one else can have an opinion isn't the way to improve (and it's just a fairly boring photo not art). You did far more moaning than he did, don't take things so personally.

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4 hours ago, VectorVonDoom said:

If you post on here you should be expecting opinions and critiques otherwise don't post. If you want people to only say complementary things then put that in big bold letters at the top. Otherwise if someone has a negative opinion but they've spent the time to explain why, then that gives you the opportunity to look at what you've done and see if you think it's valid.  If it is then you can do something about it. That's one way you improve.Pretending it's art therefore no one else can have an opinion isn't the way to improve (and it's just a fairly boring photo not art). You did far more moaning than he did, don't take things so personally.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one, right?

Thank you for yours, but you missed the entire point of this dialog. I am on sites that are geared for critiques, forums that are specifically made for critiques. On those boards you expect a critique, that's the purpose and there's no issues what-so-ever. The problem is this internet phenomenon where everyone feels they have to critique others when they themselves can't produce a body of work that even comes close to supporting their own argument. I look for critiques from professionals that I admire and wish to learn from, not some armchair warrior who finally got a puter and a $50.00 piece of software, who's now an "expert" in every given subject.

If this forum was titled "Share Your Work for and Receive Critiques" I would expect critiques. It isn't. I wasn't looking for comments on the image, good or bad. I was expressing the greatness of combining new apps to achieve a new workflow. Why is this so hard to understand? I wasn't pretending it was art as you suggest. I was making a point that Photography is art, just as illustration is art, just as music is art, get it? My statement is 100% true whether you agree or not. Photography is a form of art, and thus, there are no hard/fast rules and a photograph can be whatever the artist/photographer wishes it to be. This is not for anyone else to critique, unless that artist is trying to achieve a goal and wishes to learn the steps need to that end. You can absolutely have an opinion on my or anyone's art (don't be a drama queen), and I never said anyone can't have an opinion, but that's my point (my point all along), it's your opinion.

Lastly, to call it "a boring photo and not art" tells me that you are a fantastic illustrator, great for you by the way, but not a working photographer. I can point you to several portrait/head shot photographers if you'd like so you can see that this type of art is actually a thing. I think you're of the mindset that if you didn't draw, paint, airbrush, etc... than it isn't art. If so, you're wrong and need to open your mind a bit.

I'll end with this. I don't do what you do. I have AD, but I'm nowhere close to your level of illustration ability, I won't even try to fake it. If I have an opinion about one of your pieces, I don't feel compelled to tell you about it. It's my opinion and I can live with that. Now if you came to me and asked for my opinion, I would share it, and you'd probably ignore it, and that's fine, I wouldn't be upset or insult you. But I know this is the internet...

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If you count as it as art then fine, but my bar for what I consider to be art is obviously higher than yours. And that's nothing to do with whether it's a photo or drawing. I do all mine in vector but I don't say any of mine is art.

Actually I'm fine with people saying they don't like something of mine as long as they say what and why. Sometimes I agree and change something, other times I disagree and leave it as-is. Then sometimes no one seems to like something I've done. That's life.

Anyway I'm not going to argue as it's not worth the effort only to say you're simply wrong if you think you post stuff and people aren't going to comment and critique. If you don't want any of that and you're happy with that quality (and I'm not going to get in to that) then it's fine for you enjoy it on your monitor or in a print and forget about the internet who might say something other than you're an art god.

Oh and if you do post perhaps don't include such condescending nonsense as photographers with high end kit "usually produce crap work" but the general attitude doesn't really help either.

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1 hour ago, VectorVonDoom said:

If you count as it as art then fine, but my bar for what I consider to be art is obviously higher than yours. And that's nothing to do with whether it's a photo or drawing. I do all mine in vector but I don't say any of mine is art.

Actually I'm fine with people saying they don't like something of mine as long as they say what and why. Sometimes I agree and change something, other times I disagree and leave it as-is. Then sometimes no one seems to like something I've done. That's life.

Anyway I'm not going to argue as it's not worth the effort only to say you're simply wrong if you think you post stuff and people aren't going to comment and critique. If you don't want any of that and you're happy with that quality (and I'm not going to get in to that) then it's fine for you enjoy it on your monitor or in a print and forget about the internet who might say something other than you're an art god.

Oh and if you do post perhaps don't include such condescending nonsense as photographers with high end kit "usually produce crap work" but the general attitude doesn't really help either.

Please re-read the entire thread. You'll see a few points of interest. One, I never said I was an art god, but your rebuttal proved my point on the whole what is art topic. Two, I wasn't the one using my gear as pedestal from which to assert my authority. Three, Please look up the definition of condescending and re-read your own posts.

Your consideration of what art is or isn't, or the "bar" you set for yourself is irrelevant. This is all fine in your own mind and you're entitled to your opinions, but this has no bearing on anyone else. If it helps you achieve a goal and reach this personal manifestation of what "art" should be, then awesome! Remember, "art" is subjective and your personal definition is yours and yours alone. I said it before, I'll say it until the end of time. I speak my mind, just as you do. I'm honest, and at times abrasive (though I don't mean to be) when being honest. BUT, I never feel the need to advise others on work that, one, I can't myself produce, or two, I wasn't asked.

You are right about one thing. Posting on these forums. A good look around tells you that these forums are geared more towards illustrators, concept artists, experimental artists, etc... with the majority of the posted work being done in Affinity Designer. Come join and have a look around a forum for professional photographers, you'll notice a significant difference, both in content and context. Forums set up for critiques, others setup for discussing  lighting, retouching, etc... And a whole bunch of "boring" photos that you wouldn't consider art. So again, you're right. These forums aren't a place to talk about workflows, lighting concepts, how Affinity Photo would fit into a Capture One & Nik workflow. Nope these forums are all about everyone telling everyone how they'd do it better. Got it! :)

Again... Internet. Right? Take care and keep up the good work!

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On 6/5/2019 at 5:40 AM, Sharkey said:

Like/don't like good. Tell me what I have done 'wrong' NAH!. You have no concept of what I was trying to do - unless I have told ya!-_-.

Thank you for this true understanding of how this all works.

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