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Getting the sun right in HDR merge


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Hi,

Photo 1.65 in Windows, starting with raw images from a Z7.

Trying to figure out how to get a nice effect from the sun in an HDR merge. I shot 3 frames each 3 stops different: 6 underexposed, 3 under, finally at meter. The first is so far under I only get a nice sunburst from my f/22 aperture. The "at meter" shot has nice rendering of the midranges.

Then I use HDR merge to put these three together, but I don't see the nice sunburst. Not sure how to get there.

I discovered Overlay Paint in the HDR persona, and when I paint over the sun I see that nice sunburst come through the reddish overlay, but then ... what? I don't see any way to complete that Overlay Paint action. If I press Enter, nothing. If I choose "Accept" then AP returns to edit persona but the starburst didn't "stick" - it looks like the original merge image.

How do I end up with a nice sunburst image in an HDR?

Thanks in advance.

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I think that we would need to see your photos to be able to advise you on this. Could you upload the original images? If they are too big, you could develop them and then save as jpeg files to upload.

John 

Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.10.5 Designer 1.10.5 and Publisher 1.10.5 (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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John,

Thanks for replying. I'm uploading these files so you will see exactly what I'm working with, but in general this is a question about how to reveal details in the underexposed image of an HDR set that are currently hidden in more-exposed areas of other images in the set. That is not specific to me - I am absolutely certain others have seen and possibly solved this same issue before with vastly different image types. Any time you have a huge differential in exposure from essentially a point light source you want to render in the final image as a point light source, you have this problem to solve.

The original .NEF images are 55MB each and I don't think it is really necessary to have full res, so I've downscaled the images to 2000 x 1333 JPGs.

I'll appreciate any advice you can lend. Thanks.

Late afternoon panorama west - 2.JPG

Late afternoon panorama west - 3.JPG

Late afternoon panorama west - 1.JPG

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The Overlay is a bit like freeze and unfreeze, wherever the red is, when you make edits on the tone map tab those areas will change but the rest of the image will not.

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You can get a better result using the gradient overlay tool.

  1. Select the Gradient Overlay tool on the left side toolbar
  2. Set it to linear if its not already set and drag down from the top of the image to where the sky meets the land
  3. Try these settings:
     599293372_ScreenShot2019-05-12at18_28_18.png.5519af59dba24c77d646cf45752af084.png
  4. Tweak to see if you can improve on them
  5. You might also have to do a bit of brush overlaying on the clouds over the sun burst to try and get some lightness back in them.

1985734499_ScreenShot2019-05-12at18_30_21.thumb.png.49d8827c9c30394d2a782c4930fe37b9.png

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1 hour ago, firstdefence said:

The Overlay is a bit like freeze and unfreeze, wherever the red is, when you make edits on the tone map tab those areas will change but the rest of the image will not.

Firstdefence, I don't understand how this is supposed to help. I don't see any "try this" in what you say.

Here is the HDR image as first displayed in the Tone Mapping persona:

image.thumb.png.8cc69fc0a3c0a6908afa33b9d8a5a7d9.png

Note the sun is completely blown out.

Now I select Overlay Paint, set my brush width to about 200 pixels and paint around the sun. Here is what the screen looks like now:

image.thumb.png.2d0cff3b0b6c2eead7d083463d2514e4.png

Note that the sun now is no longer totally blown, and I can see the star pattern that my furthest-underexposed image shows. Fantastic!

But.

How do I apply this adjustment? There is no "Press Enter to complete Overlay Paint", or any other way to make the red go away and leave that beautiful sun as I want it. At least not that I can see.

The only "make it happen" action I can see on the screen is to click Apply. So I did. The result was the original HDR image, with the blown sun, but now I'm in the Edit persona.

How do I make that Overlay Paint adjustment "stick" while I'm still in the Tone Mapping persona? There must be something I'm missing ... Serif cannot have added the capability to start an effect but no way to complete it.

I looked at your later suggestion to use the gradient rather than overlay paint, but the same problem exists: there is no way I can see to complete the effect.

What am I overlooking?

Thanks.

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OK. I looked again at the HDR tutorials and see what I was missing. When I click the tool at the left edge (i.e.: the overlay brush) I am creating a new Overlay Brush overlay. Then I can do stuff with that, and when I move back to the tone map tab anything I do only affects that overlay. If I then click back in the Master overlay I'm now looking at and manipulating the whole image.

More experimenting to do, but I'm on the right track now.

 

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6 minutes ago, PLShutterbug said:

OK. I looked again at the HDR tutorials and see what I was missing. When I click the tool at the left edge (i.e.: the overlay brush) I am creating a new Overlay Brush overlay. Then I can do stuff with that, and when I move back to the tone map tab anything I do only affects that overlay. If I then click back in the Master overlay I'm now looking at and manipulating the whole image.

More experimenting to do, but I'm on the right track now.

 

It's a good thing when, after asking for help, you discover what you want to do all by yourself. I actually messed around with those three images and found myself steeped in a mystery in the sense that I was totally clueless as to what the heck I was doing! I have never done HDR merging before so it was all shiny & new.

 

Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

These are not my own words but I sure like this quote.

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I took the HDR merge and the darkest original image and pasted one on to of the other. I then set the blending mode to Average. This brought out the sunburst from the dark image. I then  applied a curves layer to increase the brightness of the image without brightening the sunburst.

1006421065_SunburstAverage.jpg.e8d1e75a4325bedbdde57d2964160596.jpg

I think that with a little more tweaking you would get what you want.

John

Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.10.5 Designer 1.10.5 and Publisher 1.10.5 (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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When you create an overlay, you are telling the Tone mapping to only affect the area's covered my the red overlay mask, as soon as you start to adjust the tone map the mask is hidden and any changes you make in the tone map section will be applied to the area encompassed by the overlay you created.

I suggested a linear gradient to give an even overall effect to the sky when adjusting the tone map settings, the tone map settings in my image were not default I adjusted them to get the sky to look like it did and the settings you started with were likely not the same so I suggested those settings as a basic starting point that you could quickly input to see the effect you could quickly achieve.

The adjustments you make are instant but non-destructive and you can turn your overlay/s off and on to see the effects of them on the original HDR image, they only become "baked in" when you hit the Apply button, after that you cannot go back and make adjustments to the overlays or tone mapping.

iMac 27" 2019 Somona 14.3.1, iMac 27" Affinity Designer, Photo & Publisher V1 & V2, Adobe, Inkscape, Vectorstyler, Blender, C4D, Sketchup + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9  
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