Vector brush vs Pixel brush?

[Gitmesteak]

Hello All,

Im having a difficult time with brush selection. How can I copy pixel brush styles to the vector brush styles? Additionally, when editing between vector brushes and pixel brushes. It is inherently impossible to figure out as the user that vector and pixel brushes carry the same functionality. Since navigating between vector and pixel personas, do carry some functionally with the same tools. It would help if the assistant or some message displays that there is some limitations when trying to make a change to a shape with the wrong brush option. I mean, color, stroke and fill all seem to work across personas and do not require an additional gui to display to change properties. 

Thanks,

[Dan C]

Hi Gitmesteak,

Welcome to the forums

I'd like some more information if possible as you've mentioned selections as well as copying brushes. Could you expand on your question and provide some screenshots if possible? Thanks in advance!

[R C-R]

16 hours ago, Gitmesteak said:

It is inherently impossible to figure out as the user that vector and pixel brushes carry the same functionality.

I am not exactly sure what you mean by this but there is a big functional difference: vector brushes 'paint' a vector path with a pixel pattern, so like all vector objects the path can be edited using the Move & Node tools. Also, the brush painting the path can be changed at any time, as can its color or stroke width.

OTOH, pixel brushes paint by applying pixels directly to pixel layers, so once a pixel brush stroke has been applied, it can't be edited, only erased or painted over with another pixel color.

16 hours ago, Gitmesteak said:

I mean, color, stroke and fill all seem to work across personas and do not require an additional gui to display to change properties. 

Try changing the color, stroke, or fill properties of something you have painted on a pixel layer after you have painted it. Now try changing any of those properties on a text, vector, shape, or image layer. Or try creating a vector, a shape, or a text object in the Pixel Persona, or alternately painting with a pixel brush; using the burn, dodge, sharpen, or blur tools; or using any of the pixel selection tools in the Draw Persona.

Different kinds of objects have different kinds of properties & likewise can be created or edited with different kinds of tools. The different personas make available the appropriate tools for the different kinds of objects & omit those that won't work with them.

[Gitmesteak]

Hello All,

I wanted to copy over a feathered brush from the pixel brushes. Since I did not find out how to do it or if it was even possible, I ended up applying a blur to the vector shape. Kinda worked out. I uploaded a video of the issue with the brushes not applying changes because they are not compatible across personas. Im calling this an issue because by default the brushes panel is pinned to the properties pane in the pixel persona. As you can see, you can still edit vector properties when in the pixel persona until you come to the brushes options. Additionally, by default the brushes options is not pinned to the vector persona. The user has to add it manually to panel as shown. Again, the brushes category are named the same in both personas. 

Link:

Thanks,
 

[R C-R]

6 minutes ago, Gitmesteak said:

I uploaded a video of the issue with the brushes not applying changes because they are not compatible across personas.

It isn't that they are 'not compatible across personas;' it is that they are two fundamentally different kinds of brushes, as I tried to explain in my previous post above. The short version: one creates editable paths; the other does not.

IOW, when you use the Paint Brush Tool in the Pixel Persona, you are not creating an editable vector path like you are with the Vector Brush Tool in the Draw Persona. See the Brush tools help topic for more about this.

22 minutes ago, Gitmesteak said:

Again, the brushes category are named the same in both personas. 

Some of the category names are generic (like Assorted or Basic) but most are not, nor do they have the same kind of brushes in them in the two personas. They are completely independent of each other.

[gdenby]

Hi, Gitmesteak,

I think the problem is based on terminology. A pixel brush can be applied to a vector shape, but does not conform to the vector outline. It can be limited by the vector, but is applied manually. A vector brush is a pixel brush stretched and perhaps repeated  along a vector. An outline of the shape, such as you presented, can have a vector brush traced over it. It can not have a simple pixel brush applied. While the stroke dialog shows an icon for a brush, that only applies to vector brushes.

See the attached for examples of pixel brushes used within vector shapes, and a vector brush tracing an object.

Smear.afdesign

[Gitmesteak]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Some of the category names are generic (like Assorted or Basic) but most are not, nor do they have the same kind of brushes in them in the two personas. They are completely independent of each other.

"They are completely independent of each other." This is why this is an issue. To a novice user, its not known they are independent. Especially when all the tools adjacent to each other DO manipulate the vector object. 

Im not saying that both of these brushes should carry the same functionality. Its OK if they can't, do to limitations. The issue is that they are not labeled as such. When looking into it, it became very apparent that a vector brush existed because of the icon. The the pixel brush icon is not the same as the vector brush icon. Also, throughout the program you have indications that you are editing in pixel or vector modes. Why not stay consistent and keep it across tool functionality? Certainly, not a big issue. But it should not be overlooked due to non-understanding of the program. 

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, Gitmesteak said:

Im not saying that both of these brushes should carry the same functionality. Its OK if they can't, do to limitations. The issue is that they are not labeled as such.

But they are labeled in a way that should at least suggest to you that they have different functionality: one is labeled "Vector Brush Tool" & the other is labeled "Paint Brush Tool." As you noticed, they also have different icons, which also should tell you they are different tools that support different functions.

1 hour ago, Gitmesteak said:

Also, throughout the program you have indications that you are editing in pixel or vector modes. Why not stay consistent and keep it across tool functionality?

Because the tools are not the same, do not support the same functions, & can not be applied in the same way to every type of object.

It may help you understand this better if instead of thinking in terms of pixel or vector "modes," instead you think in terms of the kinds of objects these tools can be used with. The Paint Brush Tool, like the Eraser Brush Tool & the Flood Fill Tool (a.k.a. the 'paint bucket') can only be applied to raster object layers, those labeled with the "(Pixel)" suffix in the Layers panel. Therefore, they appear in the Pixel but not in the Draw persona. The same is true for the Dodge, Burn, Blur, Sharpen, & Smudge Brush tools, & the six pixel selection tools (those that create 'marching ants' pixel selection boundaries).

Likewise, all the vector, shape, & text creation tools appear in the Draw but not in the Pixel Persona because they do not create raster objects. The only tools common to both Personas are the Move, View, & Pan tools because they can be used regardless of object type.

It also may help if you keep in mind that like the Tools panel, in each persona the various View > Studio panel options can be configured however you want, independently of the other personas, but that does not mean that every Studio panel option will act on every kind of object in the same way, if at all. 

2 hours ago, Gitmesteak said:

Certainly, not a big issue. But it should not be overlooked due to non-understanding of the program. 

Like any other app with a comparably complex feature set, there is no way around the need to learn how each feature works to use those features effectively. For modern hybrid vector & raster graphics creation & editing apps like the Affinity ones, that means learning at least the fundamentals of how raster, vector, & text objects differ from one another; what properties they support & how they can be edited; what destructive & non-destructive edits are; & so on.

Unfortunately, you can't rely on assistants for all or even most of this -- the scope of this subject is far too broad & complex, & there are far too many different ways these apps can be used for anything like that to be practical. What you can do is search the web for general info, & browse through the built-in help topics & the video tutorials for application-specific info about anything that you do not understand. If that doesn't help, posting to these forums (or searching for topics covering similar issues) usually will.

[Gitmesteak]

R C-R,

I totally agree with your response. However, it is 100 percent addressable. Either have 2 brush panel options or map out the correct applicable brush dependent on what type of layer you have highlighted. Everything else can remain the same. Im not trying to debate why there are 2 types of brushes. My issue is with the nature of the usability of the program. How a novice user or someone that comes from another program that doesn't know the AD fundamentals yet. Obviously this would not apply if the user already knows the architecture of the program. Again, power users will overlook this as an issue because it is not one for them. 

Thanks,

 

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, Gitmesteak said:

I totally agree with your response. However, it is 100 percent addressable. Either have 2 brush panel options or map out the correct applicable brush dependent on what type of layer you have highlighted

There already are 2 brush panel options, one in each persona. Also, don't forget that in either persona it is possible to select any number & kind of layers in the Layers panel or on the canvas, so there is no general way to map the correct brush type to the selection.

The Ui may as yet be unfamiliar to you but it is extremely well thought out, which you may appreciate a lot more once you get used to it.

[Carter]

The developers seriously need to change the name of the "vector brush" tool, as it is extremely misleading since it is essentially a pixel brush along a vector line. It really should be called something like "pixel brush on path". Those of us designing for print NEED an actual vector brush tool - you know, the ability to create custom brushes that are actually made from vectors, not raster-based images. I can't believe this hasn't been addressed... especially since it really seems like false advertising to claim your software has a critical feature that it doesn't actually offer.  

[md_germany]

On 6/5/2019 at 7:04 PM, Carter said:

pixel brush along a vector line

Thank you, right to the point!

[ashf]

On 6/5/2019 at 10:04 AM, Carter said:

The developers seriously need to change the name of the "vector brush" tool, as it is extremely misleading since it is essentially a pixel brush along a vector line. It really should be called something like "pixel brush on path". Those of us designing for print NEED an actual vector brush tool - you know, the ability to create custom brushes that are actually made from vectors, not raster-based images. I can't believe this hasn't been addressed... especially since it really seems like false advertising to claim your software has a critical feature that it doesn't actually offer.  

DrawPlus seems to be able to create real vector blush but a pixel brush along path.
I wonder why it has been changed so.