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Mac App Store vs Serif Store Affinity Designer & Photo versions


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Hi,

Are there any diferences between Mac App Store and Serif Store Affinity Designer & Photo versions or the products are exactly the same ?

Thanks

MacBook Pro Retina 15" -  macOS High Sierra  version 10.14.4

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 & 1.71 + Affinity Photo1.6.7 & 1.7.1 + Affinity Publisher 1.71

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The products are functionally identical in use, but the MAS versions are tied to your Apple ID. The Affinity Store versions come with a product key, so you don’t need to log in to your account to install them (e.g. if you’ve already downloaded the installers and you want to install the apps on additional machines owned or controlled by you, as permitted by the licence). When you purchase through the MAS, any updates are delivered via the MAS and your contract is with Apple; for Affinity Store purchases, your contract is with Serif.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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Thanks @Alfred for your answer.

I have MAS license for Affinity Designer and Photo but if I have the option when I order them I would choose Serif.

Serif should allow their clients to move the license to your Serif shop it they wont, because when we order we do not have any option and  now new clients have that opportunity.

It´s a product from the same company (Serif) it will be nice if you allow clients to move their licenses.

Thanks

MacBook Pro Retina 15" -  macOS High Sierra  version 10.14.4

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 & 1.71 + Affinity Photo1.6.7 & 1.7.1 + Affinity Publisher 1.71

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1 hour ago, DesignT said:

Serif should allow their clients to move the license to your Serif shop

It’s not ‘my’ Serif shop: I’m just a user, not a Serif employee. (All Serif employees have a ‘Staff’ badge under their avatars.)

The problem is that Apple doesn’t share individual customer data with the producers of the third-party software that they sell, so Serif has no way of verifying that you purchased an Affinity app through the MAS.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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3 hours ago, Alfred said:

The problem is that Apple doesn’t share individual customer data with the producers of the third-party software that they sell, so Serif has no way of verifying that you purchased an Affinity app through the MAS.

Apple has a good reason for this: since all MAS app purchases are tied to a user's Apple ID, there would be potential security & privacy issues if third party developers had access to any personally identifiable MAS customer data. I am sure Serif would be very diligent about protecting that data from hackers or not misusing it if it did have access to it, but if every MAS seller had the same access for their own MAS purchases, what security experts call the 'attack surface' would be huge & almost impossible to keep secure.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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The point is that MAS licensed users can easily proof that they payed the application to MAS.

So it should be enough to proof Serif that is a legar license owner and allow these users bo move/upgrade to Serif store, even it they pay a small price.

Maybe MAS will not be happy or will not allow this, I don´t know, but what makes impossible Serif store make an application upgrade that accept MAS licenses ?

What happens if the Serif application, for some reason stop to be publish on MAS ? Where do I upgrade ?

I do prefer to be in Sherif than in MAS and sometime ago I only have one option to order the Serif application.

I am sure that many Serif application users have the same opinion.

Thanks

MacBook Pro Retina 15" -  macOS High Sierra  version 10.14.4

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 & 1.71 + Affinity Photo1.6.7 & 1.7.1 + Affinity Publisher 1.71

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39 minutes ago, DesignT said:

The point is that MAS licensed users can easily proof that they payed the application to MAS.

How could they do that? 

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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Probably you are thinking about doing automatically.

Manually I think when someone buy something from MAS receive a receipt with a description of the product so they have a proof. 

The problem is I both two Serif applications and if something goes wrong with MAS in my computer or Apple ID can not restore or update so I do prefer to buy the application in developer store if I have that option.

Now Serif does sell the Mac versions but the only way to get the updates from them is to buy them again in their shop.

MacBook Pro Retina 15" -  macOS High Sierra  version 10.14.4

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 & 1.71 + Affinity Photo1.6.7 & 1.7.1 + Affinity Publisher 1.71

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20 minutes ago, DesignT said:

Manually I think when someone buy something from MAS receive a receipt with a description of the product so they have a proof. 

That would be very easy to forge!  The only people who could confirm that a payment's been made are Apple, and they won't do it.

AP, AD & APub user, running Win10

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On 5/2/2019 at 10:21 AM, IanSG said:

That would be very easy to forge!  The only people who could confirm that a payment's been made are Apple, and they won't do it.

So if the user buy on MAS, Serif don´t know if a user is a licensed user or not. 

Very accurate, so if an application needs support Serif will support all users and do not know if they really buy the application.

And buying from MAS the user will lose the applications updates if Serif decide to leave MAS.

If Serif can´t confirm who have licensed their apps if they como from MAS it will be really difficult to deal with MAS users if they decide to leave MAS.

Many developers already decide to leave MAS distribution, so if Serif one day decide to do the same, they need to create some options to MAS existing customers.

I would like to ear something from Serif about this subject because Serif initially just distribute MacOS version from MAS now I see they are available in Serif Store.

MAS clientes help Serif to get MacOS version buyers, lets see what will happen in the future.

MacBook Pro Retina 15" -  macOS High Sierra  version 10.14.4

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 & 1.71 + Affinity Photo1.6.7 & 1.7.1 + Affinity Publisher 1.71

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32 minutes ago, DesignT said:

So if the user buy on MAS, Serif don´t know if a user is a licensed user or not.

Correct

32 minutes ago, DesignT said:

Very accurate, so if an application needs support Serif will support all users and do not know if they really buy the application.

It looks like it - a lot of the support is done via this forum, and I've never seen anyone challenged about their ownership.

38 minutes ago, DesignT said:

I would like to ear something from Serif about this subject because Serif initially just distribute MacOS version from MAS now I see they are available in Serif Store.

I could be wrong, but I think there's only a link to the Apple Store - you can't buy the MacOS version directly from Serif.

44 minutes ago, DesignT said:

Many developers already decide to leave MAS distribution, so if Serif one day decide to do the same, they need to create some options to MAS existing customers.

Again, I could be wrong, but I think it's mainly companies like Spotify and Netflix, who are moving their subscription process - the apps themselves are staying in the store.  I've heard mutterings about other companies looking to leave the app store, but their business models are built around in-app purchasing.  If there are examples of companies operating in the same way as Serif successfully leaving I'd be interested to hear about them.

AP, AD & APub user, running Win10

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34 minutes ago, DesignT said:

And buying from MAS the user will lose the applications updates if Serif decide to leave MAS.

It is highly unlikely that Serif will ever decide not to sell its apps through MAS -- both Designer & Photo have been & continue to be among the top selling paid apps in MAS stores around the world. Designer is currently the #1 paid app in the Graphics & Design category in the US store & Photo is #1 in the Photography category in the US store. Both are listed by Apple as an Editor's Choice. Photo was an Apple Mac App of the Year Winner & Designer was an Apple Design Award Winner.

But let's say Serif is crazy enough to leave MAS & the revenue stream it earns for them some time in the future, after version 2 is released. We know it is going to be a paid upgrade, so if you want to buy it you can do so through the Affinity Store.

9 minutes ago, IanSG said:

I could be wrong, but I think there's only a link to the Apple Store - you can't buy the MacOS version directly from Serif.

You are wrong about that. Serif now sells a "PK" (product key) version of the Mac apps through its own store.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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47 minutes ago, IanSG said:

a lot of the support is done via this forum, and I've never seen anyone challenged about their ownership

I don’t see why they should be. Potential customers often look for pre-sales support, leading to a purchase if they’re reassured that the app will do what they’re asking about.

40 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Serif now sells a "PK" (product key) version of the Mac apps through its own store.

I think the Mac apps have only been available through the Affinity Store for a year or less.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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38 minutes ago, Alfred said:

I think the Mac apps have only been available through the Affinity Store for a year or less.

That sounds about right to me.

It would be interesting to know going forward what fraction of Mac Affinity apps will be sold through the Affinity Store vs. through the MAS, year-to-year. I suspect the MAS versions will continue to outpace the Affinity Store ones by a considerable margin, if for no other reasons than it is a very convenient way to buy & update them, & because there are localized Mac App Stores for more than 150 countries.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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I have been wondering about this for another reason: The App-Store apps are all sandboxed, the Serif store version is not bound to this (I believe?). The issue is with font auto activation: I have FontAgent Pro installed, and it works well for the Beta versions I have installed, but not for the app store versions. I wondered if this has something to do with it being sandboxed?

Also could the non-app store version potentially be less limited in the ability to add plug-ins to the software?

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1 hour ago, postmadesign said:

the Serif store version is not bound to this (I believe?).

Correct - this makes it easier to use as an external editor.

AP, AD & APub user, running Win10

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I got the application from MAS and I don´t care about with the "very convenient way to buy & update them" I do care if the application in MAS is always updated for the last version and if Serif keep the MAS distribution.

I will be happy if I can upgrade to Serif store because I will feel more secure to get updates directly from the developer.

Buying a full product again just to move to Serif Store !!!!... sorry  I don´t think that´s a happy ideia for licensed user.

MacBook Pro Retina 15" -  macOS High Sierra  version 10.14.4

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 & 1.71 + Affinity Photo1.6.7 & 1.7.1 + Affinity Publisher 1.71

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15 minutes ago, DesignT said:

I got the application from MAS and I don´t care about with the "very convenient way to buy & update them" I do care if the application in MAS is always updated for the last version and if Serif keep the MAS distribution.

Currently, the apps are always updated in the MAS & there is no reason to expect that to change for the foreseeable future, or at least during the version 1.x development cycle, which is likely not to be complete for several years. It might change after the 2.0 versions are released, but those are going to be paid upgrades anyway so if it does you can buy them from the Affinity Store.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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If you notice in the Affinity Designer product page if you hit the the buy button it redirects to Serif Store, we only see App Store ate the end of the page, this will drive buyers to Serif Store.

So I hope the the first Serif clients from MAS will not be forgotten.

By the way how can I test the beta versions if I do not have a "Product Key" ?

I think if we get the product from MAS we do not have a product key.

update: I could not run the beta because I am using symbolic links, so after copying the stable version to /Applications I could start the beta.

The initial Affinity Designer Beta also tells that we need to install the beta from the MAS. Where is it, I can not find the beta versions on MAS.

14 hours ago, R C-R said:

It might change after the 2.0 versions are released, but those are going to be paid upgrades anyway so if it does you can buy them from the Affinity Store.

You say that I would be able to buy the paid upgrade from Serif Store but if Serif  don´t know if the buyer is a user from MAS how will they sell me a upgrade ?!?!?!

I would like to know Serif reaction about this subject.

Thanks

MacBook Pro Retina 15" -  macOS High Sierra  version 10.14.4

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 & 1.71 + Affinity Photo1.6.7 & 1.7.1 + Affinity Publisher 1.71

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57 minutes ago, DesignT said:

If you notice in the Affinity Designer product page if you hit the the buy button it redirects to Serif Store, we only see App Store ate the end of the page, this will drive buyers to Serif Store.

To see that page potential buyers have to know enough to find the affinity.serif.com web site with a browser & navigate to the appropriate product page. There are currently 10 localized versions of the site, one for each of the 10 languages the apps support. To buy anything from the Affinity (not Serif) Store, buyers must create an Affinity Store account, supplying an account-specific email address & password. To open an Affinity app for the first time, they must supply the email address & the appropriate product key for the app.

In comparison, to buy apps from the MAS there is no need to create different accounts for different sellers, or keep track of the various accounts & their passwords or app product keys. Potential buyers are not limited to 10 localized store versions -- there are 150+ Mac App Stores, so no matter what language they understand or what country they live in, there almost certainly will be a localized version of the MAS product page for them.

Accessing the MAS could not be easier: by default the app is installed on the Dock & of course it is accessible from the ever present Apple menu, regardless of what if any app is frontmost. It is also the only way to install Mac OS upgrades, so most Mac users already have used it or will eventually. The Mac OS also provides built-in 'one-click' access to the MAS, for example when users try to open a file in a format none of their installed apps support, & through notifications if set up for that in System Preferences > App Store, where users can also opt for automatic update downloads & even for automatically installing them.

Moreover, Apple promotes some MAS apps as an Editor's Choice, & both Designer & Photo have earned that distinction. Designer is listed on the MAS as an Apple Design Award Winner & Photo as an Apple Mac App of the Year Winner. Both regularly are rated 4 stars or better by MAS users & are listed among the top grossing apps in a MAS app category in most stores.

So if anything, most Mac buyers are & will continue to be driven to the MAS, not to the Affinity Store.

 

2 hours ago, DesignT said:

You say that I would be able to buy the paid upgrade from Serif Store but if Serif  don´t know if the buyer is a user from MAS how will they sell me a upgrade ?!?!?!

Again, it is the Affinity, not Serif, store. Regardless, why would they need to know which store you bought v1.x from to sell you the v2.x version?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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7 hours ago, R C-R said:

Again, it is the Affinity, not Serif, store. Regardless, why would they need to know which store you bought v1.x from to sell you the v2.x version?

Hi RC-R,

You seam to be a fan of MAS, as I am but for simple apps.

Thanks for the long description of MAS benefits but your post does not bring anything new for me about Mac app store, I am a mac user since Apple Macintosh SE30.

To answer your question I just want to remember:

Quote

It might change after the 2.0 versions are released, but those are going to be paid upgrades anyway so if it does you can buy them from the Affinity Store.

I thought you were telling that the MAS users could then buy the version 2 paid upgrades from Affinity store.

Thanks

MacBook Pro Retina 15" -  macOS High Sierra  version 10.14.4

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 & 1.71 + Affinity Photo1.6.7 & 1.7.1 + Affinity Publisher 1.71

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25 minutes ago, DesignT said:

I thought you were telling that the MAS users could then buy the version 2 paid upgrades from Affinity store

He was, and they will be able to. Everyone who wants version 2 will have to purchase it, and can do so from whatever store they want to use that sells for their OS. It won't matter if they purchased version 1 from the same store or not.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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1 hour ago, DesignT said:

Thanks for the long description of MAS benefits but your post does not bring anything new for me about Mac app store, I am a mac user since Apple Macintosh SE30.

My long description of the benefits was intended to explain why I believe it is unlikely that most Mac users will be 'driven' to the Affinity Store, & also why I think neither Apple nor Serif is likely to want to end what has been a very profitable arrangement for both companies.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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14 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

He was, and they will be able to. Everyone who wants version 2 will have to purchase it, and can do so from whatever store they want to use that sells for their OS. It won't matter if they purchased version 1 from the same store or not.

Hi walt.farell

What you are telling is that we will not get an version 1 to vers 2 upgrade price  ??!!!!

MacBook Pro Retina 15" -  macOS High Sierra  version 10.14.4

Affinity Designer 1.6.1 & 1.71 + Affinity Photo1.6.7 & 1.7.1 + Affinity Publisher 1.71

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