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fde101

Picture frames on master pages broken in .305

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Recipe:

  1. Create a new document with a default master
  2. Create a picture frame on the master page
  3. Switch to the normal page
  4. Drag an image from the Finder over the picture frame to place it

 

Selecting the frame does not show the usual controls for adjusting the content.  I get them if the frame is on a non-master page, but not if the frame is on a master page.

Also, double-clicking on the frame switches to the node tool instead of selecting the contained picture.  When the frame is on the normal page, double-clicking when using the move tool selects the content layer and leaves the move tool selected.

 

EDIT: it does work in Edit Detached mode, but that should not be required to edit content.

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Hi fde101.  Not sure if you're helping me articulate my problem or offering a recipe that creates the situation.  If it's the latter, that's exactly what I've done, and it recreates the problem.  I am unable to then double click on the image and see the zoom/reframing tools.

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On 4/30/2019 at 2:16 AM, fde101 said:

Selecting the frame does not show the usual controls for adjusting the content.  I get them if the frame is on a non-master page, but not if the frame is on a master page.

Master pages still are an issue in AfPub. They stick in the background more than wanted or expected. In your example the image (dragged or placed) on a the documents page appears in the layers panel as an item on master page only. Master and slave.

441174137_Bildschirmfoto2019-05-08um04_43_45.jpg.500a2a61621c119433f34eb4609194a7.jpg

 

Whereas me would want and expect something like this ...

1231810930_Bildschirmfoto2019-05-08um04_45_43.jpg.fa3334c814df29b54101f2c14fb6bfb5.jpg

... but even this would not illustrate the real situation, too.

Imho it can not work without issues as long as master objects seem to be damned to the background and layers are not independent of master or slave and superior instead. Layers as parents of masters and slaves.

Why do master page objects need a layer by their own – instead of sharing layers with document page objects?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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7 hours ago, thomaso said:

Layers as parents of masters and slaves.

This doesn't work either.  In the Affinity products, each object *IS* a layer - each shape, image, text box, etc.  As those objects exist on pages, layers can't be parents of the pages - master pages or otherwise.

You are using the term "layers" to refer to what on the forums has generally been referred to as "global layers" - Serif has picked up on the need for that but I don't know how quickly we can expect that to happen.  In this situation, "global" layers would be orthogonal to pages (master or not), with the "non-global" layers (what we currently have) being organized within the global layers, but specific to a master or a page.

 

7 hours ago, thomaso said:

Why do master page objects need a layer by their own

The "master layer" acts as a group to keep the objects on the master page organized and out of the way when working on individual pages.  I suspect that with the addition of global layers later on, there would be a "master layer" within each global layer of a page that a particular master page had content for... but have no way of knowing for sure how that will work until Serif actually delivers that functionality.

 

7 hours ago, thomaso said:

instead of sharing layers with document page objects?

Master page layers are already shared with the document pages - they are organized under a group layer representing the master page.  Document page layers obviously cannot be shared with a master page or there would be no distinction between the individual document pages.

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9 hours ago, rockymountainjoe said:

offering a recipe that creates the situation

This, so that the Serif team can recreate and hopefully fix the problem.  I don't know if this behavior is a bug or an unfortunate consequence of the intended design, but it is a highly undesirable behavior that should be treated as a bug regardless.

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This is not Mac-specific; it also happens on Windows. And on 1.7.0.312.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.3.476 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.3.476 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.3.475 Beta

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5 hours ago, fde101 said:

13 hours ago, thomaso said: 

@ fde100, I also see your points.
(and I notice that the shift / master topic pushes me to the limit of my ability to express, at least in English.)

Yes, possibly the lack of "global layers" is an expression which covers the issue. – I'd rather say I miss the ability to have more than one Master-Mother-layer on a documents page, to be able to use various master page objects on different levels of a documents page, for instance one master object as background color and another master object as most front layer for pagination – both without the need to become detached.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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2 minutes ago, thomaso said:

I'd rather say I miss the ability to have more than one Master-Mother-layer on a documents page, to be able to use various master page objects on different levels of a documents page, for instance one master object as background color and another master object as most front layer for pagination – both without the need to become detached.

Fair enough, but to make sure it is not lost in the noise, I would point out that this is not significantly related to the issue represented by this thread.

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On 4/30/2019 at 2:16 AM, fde101 said:

Selecting the frame does not show the usual controls for adjusting the content.  I get them if the frame is on a non-master page, but not if the frame is on a master page.

This different controls indicate that a master page object is selected and its content is locked (compare: grayed out visibility check-boxes in Layer Panel for master objects)
 

On 4/30/2019 at 2:16 AM, fde101 said:

Also, double-clicking on the frame switches to the node tool instead of selecting the contained picture.

I guess it is related to the feature (or bug?) that selecting a master page object in main window does NOT auto-select the according layer in Layer Panel.

But, without detaching the master object, you can access the frames content by manually selecting the image layer inside its master/mother folder in Layer Panel. This way the image gets selected (not its frame), shows its 'normal' handles/control icons and is accessible again.

I agree your impression that this reduced accessibility of master page objects with documents page content on a documents page to be a bug.

(Though I think to have read recently a moderators hint that master page objects are not meant to be used as containers for individualised use on document pages - but "as is" only. – Would be a pity indeed.)


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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1 hour ago, thomaso said:

This different controls indicate that a master page object is selected and its content is locked

Actually, the "Edit Frame Content" mode is the default for master page objects, which should mean that the frame itself is locked but the content is not.  The problem is that right now the UI is treating the content almost as if it were locked along with the frame.

 

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

selecting a master page object in main window does NOT auto-select the according layer in Layer Panel

Yes it does.  Selecting the frame in the main content area does select the frame's layer in the Layers panel.  Sometimes that layer might be hidden in the panel, either because it is inside of another layer that is collapsed or because it is scrolled off screen, but it is still selected.

 

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

without detaching the master object, you can access the frames content by manually selecting the image layer inside its master/mother folder in Layer Panel

Correct, but that shouldn't be necessary.

 

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

(Though I think to have read recently a moderators hint that master page objects are not meant to be used as containers for individualised use on document pages - but "as is" only. – Would be a pity indeed.)

If we are thinking of the same comments, I don't think that is quite what was meant by that.  The fact is that short of using Edit Detached, even though the frame may have different content on each page, the frame itself is the same for all of them.

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2 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Actually, the "Edit Frame Content" mode is the default for master page objects, which should mean that the frame itself is locked but the content is not. 

I see this context menu options "Detach" and "Edit" in Layer Panel only for the Master folder, NOT for nested containers (image or text frame):

1004739647_masterfoldercontextmenu.jpg.f083a9ecd40946652c8ad87d24c13f39.jpg      524468486_masterimageframecontextmenu.jpg.99c3b35ce1d8e3223d94b445ffc551f7.jpg


 

5 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Selecting the frame in the main content area does select the frame's layer in the Layers panel. 

Hm. To me the Layer-auto-Select does not work for Master objects, even with not-collapsed view in Layer Panel.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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3 minutes ago, thomaso said:

I see this context menu options "Detach" and "Edit" in Layer Panel only for the Master folder, NOT for nested containers (image or text frame):

Correct, the option is set in one place and applies to everything on the master page, including the frames.

 

4 minutes ago, thomaso said:

To me the Layer-auto-Select does not work for Master objects, even with not-collapsed view in Layer Panel.

The object *IS* the layer.  Selecting the object selects the layer and vice versa because they are the same thing.  If the option to reveal the layer in the panel is not working, that may be a separate issue.  I haven't actually tried that option and don't have it in front of me to try it right now.

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34 minutes ago, fde101 said:

the option is set in one place and applies to everything on the master page, including the frames.

Obviously "Edit frame content" does NOT apply to every... including frames. – Otherwise you would be able to edit this topics image frame content by double-click. Instead selecting what you want the app jumps to node tool. – The fact that your selection does not really work is the bug/issue which made you open this topic, I guess.

 

41 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Selecting the object selects the layer and vice versa because they are the same thing. 

Both the action to select + the visual apparel of selected are quite different, on page compared to Layer Panel. It's all over the same issue: the reduced accessibility of master objects on a document page and/or their inconsistent look of selected on page vs. in layers.

- Master page frames are not highlighted in Layer Panel if selected.
- You can not select all kind of Master objects on documents page - but can do it in Layer Panel. (f.i. shape/form tool's objects)


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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1 hour ago, thomaso said:

The fact that your selection does not really work is the bug/issue which made you open this topic, I guess.

Correct, as it *does* work for text frames I believe this is either a bug or an oversight.

 

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

You can not select all kind of Master objects on documents page - but can do it in Layer Panel. (f.i. shape/form tool's objects)

This is intentional when the mode is either Locked or Edit Frame Content, as you shouldn't be able to do anything with them anyway in those modes, so that makes sense.  With Edit Detached or Edit Linked they should work just like the layers on the page itself.

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Hi fde101,

Thanks for your original post about lost functionality with Master Page Picture Frames. It has been logged, and we should have a fix in the next update.

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