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Petar Petrenko

[1.7.0.305] placing pictures and docx

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Hi,

I encountered with some problems with pictures after instalation of v. .305:

  1. when I am placing text into a new document, I get this (see import.png);
  2. when I try to move a picture a little bit and I release the mouse button, it comes back to its previous position (sticky picture?) and the text bellow it goes up row-by-row every time I reposition it;
  3. sometimes the picture disapper, but its frame stays.

Supprisingly good, I didn't find any problems I mentioned, if the picture is pinned. Great.

I also attach the DOCX file I have problems with. The pictures are at the end of the document.

import.png

книгата.docx


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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1 hour ago, Petar Petrenko said:

when I am placing text into a new document, I get this (see import.png);

I'm not sure what you think is wrong in that .png, Petar.

Looking at it, it appears that you have drawn your Text Frame partly off of the page, and partly on. And in that case I would expect exactly what you show.

Can you describe a bit more what you did, and why you think that what you got is wrong?


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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I clicked on the upper left corner of the margin to place the text and expected that the inserted text frame will fill the margins (like in Quark or InDesign), but a small text frame appeared (as on the picture) centered on the spot I clicked.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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5 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

I clicked on the upper left corner of the margin to place the text and expected that the inserted text frame will fill the margins (like in Quark or InDesign), but a small text frame appeared (as on the picture) centered on the spot I clicked.

Thanks.

My approach is to draw the Text Frame I want, then use File > Place, and the active Text Frame is filled automatically with the placed file.

I'm not sure how it should work with your approach. I could see either design approach, either the click-point is the center or the click-point is the upper-left corner of the resulting frame.

But I don't think I would expect it to give me a text frame that fills the complete page. In general that would work only with an empty page. And the behavior you've described seems to match the behavior of Place elsewhere in Publisher and in the rest of the Affinity Suite. Generally it's better to click and drag unless you're placing into an existing frame, because otherwise you can't predict the on-screen size of the placed object.

I think that Serif will need to tell us their expectations for your approach, and whether it's a bug or not.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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After another experiment: If you do a File > Place in any of the Affinity applications (1.6 or 1.7) and simply click in the page rather than clicking and dragging or clicking in a frame, the file is placed centered on the point where you clicked.

So I think what you've done is working as it's designed to work. You need to click in an existing frame, or click and drag to place the file at the size and location you want.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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That is how it works in InDesign if you don't check "Primary Text Frame" when creating new document.

"Primary text Frame" is the same as "Automatic Text Box" in Quark. Both create empty and active text box with size as margin boundaries, waiting to insert/place text and other pages are automatically created.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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3 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

2. when I try to move a picture a little bit and I release the mouse button, it comes back to its previous position (sticky picture?) and the text bellow it goes up row-by-row every time I reposition it;

For this one, I think @Dave Harris's reply to a topic I posted may be relevant:

 


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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1 minute ago, Petar Petrenko said:

That is how it works in InDesign if you don't check "Primary Text Frame" when creating new document.

"Primary text Frame" is the same as "Automatic Text Box" in Quark. Both create empty and active text box with size as margin boundaries, waiting to insert/place text and other pages are automatically created.

Those functions do not exist in Publisher, and might be appropriate as a suggested new feature.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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15 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

For this one, I think @Dave Harris's reply to a topic I posted may be relevant:

 

I have no problems with pinned (inline) picture. It works great for me and the problems Dave discribed are not the same I explained under number 2.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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20 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

I have no problems with pinned (inline) picture. It works great for me and the problems Dave discribed are not the same I explained under number 2.

OK. May be something different, then.

For me, importing your .docx file, all the images come in as pinned (inline) automatically. Are you changing that before you try moving them? Because with them pinned if I try moving them up a bit they reposition them as you described.

 

3 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

sometimes the picture disapper, but its frame stays. 

I can confirm this one. After several times trying to move the picture up a bit, the image disappears though the frame bounding box remains visible. The text seems to flow up under it, too, and become invisible.

Good example. Thanks for providing it.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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Under "pinned/inline" I understand that an arrow is displayed pointing to the place the object is anchored.

Under number 2 in my first post what I described is that the picture doesn't have that anchor arrow so it is not pinned. It behaves like sticky object (I don't know how to explain in other words) which means that when you try to reposition it a little bit it comes back to its previous position or sometimes it vanishes. It does not allow to be placed freely on some other location and I think it is not OK.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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17 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Under "pinned/inline" I understand that an arrow is displayed pointing to the place the object is anchored.

Under number 2 in my first post what I described is that the picture doesn't have that anchor arrow so it is not pinned. It behaves like sticky object (I don't know how to explain in other words) which means that when you try to reposition it a little bit it comes back to its previous position or sometimes it vanishes. It does not allow to be placed freely on some other location and I think it is not OK.

When I Placed your .docx file, all the images show as pinned if you look at the pin/float buttons on the main Toolbar or if you look in the Pinning panel.

I agree that they do not appear pinned if you look at the image bounding box. I'm not sure what's going on with that.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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9 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

When I Placed your .docx file, all the images show as pinned if you look at the pin/float buttons on the main Toolbar or if you look in the Pinning panel.

I agree that they do not appear pinned if you look at the image bounding box. I'm not sure what's going on with that.

If you mean by this they are anchored into text (an arrow is shown) then it is very strange because when I place the file they are not anchored (no pointing arrow).


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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2 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

If you mean by this they are anchored into text (an arrow is shown) then it is very strange because when I place the file they are not anchored (no pointing arrow).

As I said, they do not appear pinned if you look at the bounding box (no arrow, no line between an arrow and the top control node. They are pinned inline (to something) if you select one and look at the Toolbar buttons or the Pinning panel.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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???

Just look what I marked red.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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2 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

???

Just look what I marked red.

I did. There seem to be inconsistent views of the pinning status of the images when importing your .docx file.

The arrows are not shown. But if you look at the Toolbar buttons or the Pinning panel with any of the images selected they show as pinned inline.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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To further demonstrate what I mean, here's a screenshot of the pin/float buttons, the Pinning panel, and one of your images:

image.png.8e814bd433dce0da5134f9776be3efdc.png

All of them are like that. Pinned inline, but no indication of where. And the pinning explains your problem #2, I believe.

 


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.239), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.464 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.4464 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.2.471 and 1.7.2.458 Beta

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20 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Under "pinned/inline" I understand that an arrow is displayed pointing to the place the object is anchored.

Under number 2 in my first post what I described is that the picture doesn't have that anchor arrow so it is not pinned. It behaves like sticky object (I don't know how to explain in other words) which means that when you try to reposition it a little bit it comes back to its previous position or sometimes it vanishes. It does not allow to be placed freely on some other location and I think it is not OK.

Only floating images get the line showing where in the text they are pinned to. They need it because the pin can be far away from the image. Inline images always have the same position as their pin so don't need the line. Inline and floating generally behave very differently: pinned objects are almost two features rather than one. Inline images behave like characters.

Because inline images behave like characters, you don't get much control over how they are positioned. You can't move them from side to side with the mouse, because they have to stay between the characters to their left and right. You can change their size, and move them up or down. When the images are larger than the paragraph leading, doing that has a similar effect to changing the height of a very tall character. The leading increases or decreases to accommodate it.

Essentially I think the inline images are working as intended. I have imported your document into OpenOffice and it has similar restrictions. They can't be moved horizontally.

21 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

I can confirm this one. After several times trying to move the picture up a bit, the image disappears though the frame bounding box remains visible. The text seems to flow up under it, too, and become invisible.

This sounds like the inline image is too large for the frame and has gone onto the next frame, or into overflow. If the latter, it will still be listed in the Layers panel, but the visibility checkbox will be unticked (and disabled). If you show overflow text for the frame, the image should be drawn again. Then you can decide what to do about it - make the text frame bigger, or the image smaller, or use autoflow, or whatever.

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19 hours ago, Dave Harris said:

Essentially I think the inline images are working as intended. I have imported your document into OpenOffice and it has similar restrictions. They can't be moved horizontally.

No, they didn't. Please, read number 2 and 3 from my starting post.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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4 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

No, they didn't. Please, read number 2 and from my starting post.

That point is addressed by the second paragraph in my post. Inline characters can't be moved from side to side, and moving up or down may only affect the text baseline.

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15 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

No, they didn't. Please, read number 2 and 3 from my starting post.

Sorry, I missed to add number 3 in the previous post. That's way I quote myself.

19 hours ago, Dave Harris said:

Essentially I think the inline images are working as intended.

What I mean, inline pictures tend to dissappear if you try to reposition them.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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1 hour ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Sorry, I missed to add number 3 in the previous post. That's way I quote myself.

What I mean, inline pictures tend to dissappear if you try to reposition them.

I think I addressed that point in my final paragraph. If you move the inline image so its baseline goes into overflow, it won't be drawn on the page. If that's not what's happening, could you give an example?

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21 hours ago, Dave Harris said:

This sounds like the inline image is too large for the frame and has gone onto the next frame, or into overflow. If the latter, it will still be listed in the Layers panel, but the visibility checkbox will be unticked (and disabled). If you show overflow text for the frame, the image should be drawn again. Then you can decide what to do about it - make the text frame bigger, or the image smaller, or use autoflow, or whatever.

Pictures dissappear even they are shorten than the width of the margins. If you try to reposition them on other location they jump randomly on some other page and make other pictures to dissappear, too.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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I've attached in my first post of this thread. Just bellow the PNG file. As I mentioned, the pictures are at the end of the document. Thanks.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Dell Inspiron 7559 i7
Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M )
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600MHz (8GBx2)
1TB HDD + 128 GB SSD Hard drive
UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED- Backlit Touch Display
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4GB GDDR5

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