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4 minutes ago, MikeW said:

foolish

I don't feel that limitation so strict. If Serif would publish a document about Publisher I would not wonder if it got created in their (!) Designer.

Compare: if one wants to sell a Mercedes-Benz C-Class it is not contradictionary to drive to the client with an E-Class model to hand-out the Infos about the C-Class.
Or: if I want to get infos about the offer in a restaurant I would not expect to get food presented. Instead I feel satisfied first to read a text on a piece of paper ('good' restaurants deliver tasty "greetings from the kitchen" shortly after my order;)

 

15 minutes ago, MikeW said:

long(er) publications

That's more important. But even then: When Publisher got final published would you feel disturbed or negative influenced if the application in which a "Publisher Workbook" will have been layouted would be Affinity Designer, the same like for the "Designer Workbook"?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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6 minutes ago, thomaso said:

I don't feel that limitation so strict. If Serif would publish a document about Publisher I would not wonder if it got created in their (!) Designer.

...

book" will have been layouted would be Affinity Designer, the same like for the "Designer Workbook"?

If Serif published a book, a real honest to god book, using AD I would think they are idiots.

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20 minutes ago, Raymondo said:

Thomaso I don’t think I can help you much more here as if you don’t even know what “ design industry standard” means I suggest you do some research on the internet.

I am glad that you tried to help me at all, to understand your thoughts which keep you persistently complain.

talk_hi.thumb.jpg.5bf59ad6e6d86d7d058e5cc95cac0dd6.jpg


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14 minutes ago, MikeW said:

If Serif published a book, a real honest to god book, using AD I would think they are idiots. 

Why idiots? I'd say the difficulty will be the content, not the creating application. The difficulty will become to visually show on static pages what Publisher can do which can't be done with the creating application of the "Designer Workbook" (which, unfortunately does not show its capabilitiy of multi-page-spreads, to convince Raymondo)


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It's at best foolhardy to create a book using art boards. Even if pages are ever added to AD, it would still be so inefficient to do, that other than to "prove" it can be done, it would be an idiotic venture. 

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11 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Even if pages are ever added to AD, it would still be so inefficient to do,

Does it mean you think it was foolhardy or up to foolish to have created the "Designer workbook" in AD?

Do you think, the tool for a static 2D documentation of a layout software is more or at least same important than its created content?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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27 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Does it mean you think it was foolhardy or up to foolish to have created the "Designer workbook" in AD?

Do you think, the tool for a static 2D documentation of a layout software is more or at least same important than its created content?

I believe the two present books were laid out using PagePlus.

They say content is king. But the presentation of that content is equally important. 

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@Patrick Connor

In addition to setting up single-leaf folding brochures (tri-fold, gate-fold, accordion-fold, z-fold), its also desirable to be able to set up books/magazines with occasional foldout leaves or half-page inserts. (See the InDesign pages panel illustrations below.)

I'm not a programmer or app developer, so I'm not sure how you would achieve this in Affinity Publisher, but I would think that conceptually the solution would have something to do with the shared concept of artboards within the Affinity suite. If, in Designer, one can group three artboards together to create one side of a tri-fold brochure, shouldn't Publisher be able to allow a book/magazine designer to "group" several pages/artboards on either side of a spine? Equally, shouldn't one be able to establish an alternate set of narrow master pages and apply it to either side of a spine? 

Screen Shot 2019-04-30 at 6.24.14 PM.png

Screen Shot 2019-04-30 at 6.24.56 PM.png

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45 minutes ago, MikeW said:

I believe the two present books were laid out using PagePlus. 

I never experienced PagePlus. Was it easier to do it there? If yes, why not using it? (Then we can wonder why people yearn for Publisher. Cause of Mac compatibity and/or design?) ...

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

to "prove" it can be done

... or do you have doubts that the "Designer Workbook" would have been able to be done in AD?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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9 minutes ago, thomaso said:

I never experienced PagePlus. Was it easier to do it there? If yes, why not using it? ...

Was what easier? If you mean layout and are comparing to AD, yes, it is easier. It is a layout application. If you mean to compare to APub, then that too is easier in PP.

However, PagePlus is no longer supported by Serif and the future as far as Serif is concerned are the Affinity applications. 

15 minutes ago, thomaso said:

... or do you have doubts that the "Designer Workbook" would have been able to be done in AD?

No, I have no doubt it could be done. But it would simply be a dumb thing to do for reasons already mentioned. 

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53 minutes ago, MikeW said:

They say content is king. But the presentation of that content is equally important. 

Yes. A blond girl can be sexist but doesn't have to be. – What's its truth? Might it be simply both, as if "before" and "after"?

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/84392-tables-hope-this-is-a-bug-and-not-some-weird-feature/&do=findComment&comment=446083

https://affinity.serif.com/de/tutorials/publisher/desktop/video/286543762


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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@thomaso

40 minutes ago, thomaso said:

@Mark Oehlschlager,

don't these screenshots tell that such a page amount and arrangement is ideally done in Affinity Designer?

No. These screen shots illustrate how to set up special instances of page foldouts, and half-page inserts within a book/magazine (a long, multi-page document).

One would have to be crazy to set up 100+ page publication in an illustration app. Designer is not the right tool for the job of designing and laying out books. 

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9 minutes ago, MikeW said:

No, I have no doubt it could be done. But it would simply be a dumb thing to do for reasons already mentioned. 

Yes, agree. – My thoughts might been slow, we talked about a scenario in the future, didn't we? So, sorry for questioning at all. (it is obvious and natural that the existing book was not done in AD and, yes, it would be foolish to create the book for Publisher in AD. Or in PagePlus.

Since you know PagePlus: would such a "Publisher Workbook" be easier to layout in Publisher or in PagePlus? Or does it not matter, cause we don't know the timetables of both and can assume, the book for Publisher is already in its first layout steps – though its application does not finally exist yet?


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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2 minutes ago, Mark Oehlschlager said:

One would have to be crazy to set up 100+ page publication in an illustration app.

100+ indeed? Crazy. – The screenshots show 8 and 10 pages.

 

4 minutes ago, Mark Oehlschlager said:

These screen shots illustrate how to set up special instances of page foldouts, and half-page inserts within a book/magazine (a long, multi-page document).

Exactly perfect for affinity Designer.

In case you really plan to do 100+ layouts in this way, day by day for a 10+ of years, then I'd rather think about the post-production process and its costs.
And if I know how to pay that Buchbinderarbeiten über mehrere Projekte und Jahre ;) , I simply would buy Serif. Für nur 100+ solche Jobs lohnt sich der Programmieraufwand nicht, da geht das Layouten händisch schneller + billiger.


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Hi Patrick 

I’m not sure I follow you as you said you envisaged adding tri-fold, Quad- fold and Z-Fold etc and you add  ( I.e menu). I assume you mean then that you intend to add a few more presets (templates) to the existing drop down menu when choosing new. That’s not at all going to help creatives who like to decide on the the layout dimensional  process. It would appear that Serif are, at least for the time being, going to concentrate on no more than bog standard design work. What you have illustrated if I have read you post correctly is a standard gate fold. I have said that creatives need freedom of expression when designing and that means being able to choose the layout to suit there vision. InDesign provides this and has done for some while.

Why would any designer push to one side an established piece of software which has given them flexibility and has worked well for them for some years suddenly choose a new software which takes them back in time and restricts their creativity. From your post Patrick it comes across that Serif does not recognise or even accept that there is a need to expand the page layout tab I.e being able to shuffle pages and choose different dimensions etc (see post by Mark Oehlschlager and the illustration). 

In my time as a designer, I have worked on brochures, leaflets, exhibition stands, building wraps, vehicle graphics, packaging, In store displays and merchandising. I believe I am qualified to raise this issue as a genuine concern and can only hope that Serif looks again at its approach to page layout as there are a number of other posts here echoing the same thing and I’m sure there are others in the design community that will be looking closely at whether Apub is a serious option for them or not going forward into the future. Can you just confirm Patrick, is it just you that sees these posts or are they generally viewed for comment and consideration by more senior staff.

I apologise if my post is a little tiresome as I know you are often all hammered from all sides but the layout tab itself needs looking at sooner rather than later, not expanding the new page layout menu. Fortunately I have CS6 so I don’t have a subscription to worry about so I can carry on with that perfectly well for the time being but I had high hopes for Apub as It is potentially a good program and it is very fast and efficient.

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