Jump to content
casterle

[By Design] AP: Strange layer behavour

Recommended Posts

I am following a tutorial which involves creating image adjustment groups. The process involved duplicating the image layer, grouping it, adding live adjustment filters to the grouped layer, and then adding a mask to the group. This worked well, but I wanted to get rid of the image in the layer and just have the effects apply to the image below. I named this group Soften.

When I disabled the Pixel layer within the Soften group, the effect disappeared; it was only visible when the Pixel layer within the Soften group was visible.

In my experimentation, I tried copying the adjustment layers from the Soften group and placing them immediately above the original image layer, then copying the mask from the Soften group to each adjustment layer individually. This, of course, worked as expected. 

I then tried placing both adjustment layers in a new group, Soften 2. Things continued working as I expected. I copied the mask from the adjustment layers to the Soften group, removing them from the individual layers and everything continued to work. Here's how the layers look now (New Base is the image I'm working on).

image.png.d320f9b18a73c11bf77d31cfb38d868b.png

If I delete New Base from the Soften group, it works just like Soften 2. It seems to me that this behavior is incorrect. If New Base is not visible in Soften, then it should have no effect on the result produced by that group.

This is causing problems because, for mask visualization purposes, I add a Fill or Pixel flood layer to these groups so I can enable the layer to visualize the mask. This Fill or Pixel flood layer (I've tried both) causes the effects from the layer to fail.


Windows 10 Pro, XP-Pen Deco 03, AP & AD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seem to recall a known issue with the blend mode of a group that contains only adjustments. If that's right, is this perhaps related?


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta       / Affinity Designer 1.6..5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta    / Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.337 Beta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our developers came back to me and this behaviour is expected. Adjustment layers inside a group only apply to the layers inside that group. The only exception is if the adjustment layers are on their own, with no pixel/shape layers inside the group. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, GabrielM said:

Our developers came back to me and this behaviour is expected. Adjustment layers inside a group only apply to the layers inside that group. The only exception is if the adjustment layers are on their own, with no pixel/shape layers inside the group. 

While the behavior may be expected by the developers, there is no reason to expect it as a user. They need to revisit this issue. Requiring an image to be contained within the layer is problematic for two reasons.

First, you must expand the size of your file by the size of your image for *every filter group* you want to apply. 

But more importantly, you are breaking a basic data design principle - data should exist in only one location within a DB (like an afphoto file). This concept was developed with good reason: If I find an record that needs to be updated, it should exist in only one place to prevent the DB from becoming inconsistent by inadvertently updating the record in one location but not the others.

The reason this principle should be applied to AP is the same. If I find a flaw in my image, I want to be able to fix it in one place rather than having to remember the groups that must (incorrectly IMHO) also contain that layer to work.

It's true that inconsistencies in images are generally more apparent than those in databases and thus easier to root out, but why should we have to root them out in the first place?


Windows 10 Pro, XP-Pen Deco 03, AP & AD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, casterle said:

First, you must expand the size of your file by the size of your image for *every filter group* you want to apply.

That's not what I understood from @GabrielM 's post. Or I don't understand your workflow :)

You only need the image inside the filter group if you don't want the filter group to apply to everything below it. As you do want the fllters to apply below the group (from your original post), simply don't include the image within the group.

Note that "hiding the image within the group" is not the same as "removing the image from the group."


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta       / Affinity Designer 1.6..5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta    / Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.337 Beta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, casterle said:

While the behavior may be expected by the developers, there is no reason to expect it as a user. They need to revisit this issue. Requiring an image to be contained within the layer is problematic for two reasons.

First, you must expand the size of your file by the size of your image for *every filter group* you want to apply. 

But more importantly, you are breaking a basic data design principle - data should exist in only one location within a DB (like an afphoto file). This concept was developed with good reason: If I find an record that needs to be updated, it should exist in only one place to prevent the DB from becoming inconsistent by inadvertently updating the record in one location but not the others.

The reason this principle should be applied to AP is the same. If I find a flaw in my image, I want to be able to fix it in one place rather than having to remember the groups that must (incorrectly IMHO) also contain that layer to work.

It's true that inconsistencies in images are generally more apparent than those in databases and thus easier to root out, but why should we have to root them out in the first place?

You can trick the app to behave sensibly like Photoshop. Give the Passthrough group a lowest layer that is a solid white Fill layer (or vector Rectangle that covers the entire canvas) with Multiply blend mode (or a pure black layer with Subtract blend mode). Now there will be no problem with having a mix of filters/adjustments and other objects inside the group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Note that "hiding the image within the group" is not the same as "removing the image from the group."

But it should be. If I hide something, I don't want it to have an effect; it should act in the same manner as deleting it from the group. IMHO.


Windows 10 Pro, XP-Pen Deco 03, AP & AD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, >|< said:

You can trick the app to behave sensibly like Photoshop. Give the Passthrough group a lowest layer that is a solid white Fill layer (or vector Rectangle that covers the entire canvas) with Multiply blend mode (or a pure black layer with Subtract blend mode). Now there will be no problem with having a mix of filters/adjustments and other objects inside the group.

Thank you!


Windows 10 Pro, XP-Pen Deco 03, AP & AD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×