**his Gradient layer vs mine rectangle layer** Help!

[Kimo]

Hi there. So i am following a tutorial from Alessandro Castellani on youtube, regarding his Turnip man.
 
And i was in the middle of the process to make a "color layer" for Every layer i had, when i notice his method was a lot easier.
and when i started to investigate i noticed that he Only has 1. layer for his "group" of curves. which he can edit. **his Gradient layer vs mine rectangle layer**

When i try to do the same thing, create a square, colour it, and place it beneath all my curves. I end up with my square covering the entire picture* (see picture 1). Which sadly is forcing me to place a color player on every single curve i have. 

I would like to make 1 layer for all body parts, armour and for the different weapons. around 5-10 compared to my nearly 30 already. 
 
I wonder if this is a bug?  since it looks like so simple. What could I be doing wrong? 


 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Kimo
unspecified issue compared to the picture

[R C-R]

In the video, his turnip man shape is a Curve layer, not a "group," & the various parts are child layers nested in it. In your screenshot, your knife shape is a Group layer 

So to do what he did, you need to make a single layer that is the overall shape of the knife & nest the other parts of it in that layer.

[gdenby]

What R C-R pointed out is correct. After going thru the video, it seems that the objects that are "merged," to use his term, are then overlaid w. the original shapes, which are then shaded separately.

All objects can have their own color, named the fill. the fill color can be a gradient. In some cases, it is simpler to make 1 object w. a gradient fill, and apply that fill to others, adjusting the gradient direction and extent as needed for each part.

[Kimo]

5 hours ago, R C-R said:

In the video, his turnip man shape is a Curve layer, not a "group," & the various parts are child layers nested in it. In your screenshot, your knife shape is a Group layer 

So to do what he did, you need to make a single layer that is the overall shape of the knife & nest the other parts of it in that layer.

I am not sure i understand How to create a Curve layer then. 
Everytime i create a layer, and nest my curves i seems like it becomes a group. 
What is the difference? 

also he does make a merge curves at some point, which i can't find in any of the menus. I don't know how, but could this be why i find it so hard to remake?

Anyway... if i try to do what you told me to... I get this ( see uploaded file). Its a curve layer with nested curves.. but only the first Curve layer gains the rectangle as background color. 
which still forces me to "underlay" the rectangle nested into every layer i have. 

[firstdefence]

What R C-R is referring to is a boolean add to make a single curve from several curve shapes. As an alternative why not use an  colour overlay on the group

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, Kimo said:

Everytime i create a layer, and nest my curves i seems like it becomes a group. 
What is the difference? 

When you nest a curve layer in another layer (known as the 'parent' layer) what does it say next to that parent layer in the Layers panel? If it does not say " (Group)" there, it is not a Group layer.

[Kimo]

8 hours ago, firstdefence said:

What R C-R is referring to is a boolean add to make a single curve from several curve shapes. As an alternative why not use an  colour overlay on the group

I am not sure i know how to make a single curve from the curve shapes? i can't find the merge button. 

but also. would this "one curve to rule them all" prevent me from editing a new layer with a new curve later.? 

sorry if i am hard to understand/or don't get it... but i am trying to understand, and i´ve been all over google.

 

[Kimo]

6 hours ago, R C-R said:

When you nest a curve layer in another layer (known as the 'parent' layer) what does it say next to that parent layer in the Layers panel? If it does not say " (Group)" there, it is not a Group layer.

That was something i did understand, but thx anyway... it made it more clear for me to recognize somehow. 

But from my point of view, i though i already had created a curve layer... more specific layer- curve, curse, curve , rectangle(color). 
so in my head this should work, i should now have 3 curves with a compared layer of color. 
or is it the first "layer" that's the issue?, since it a layer and not a curve. *(from what i understand from other forums it don't have a gender yet, and therefore it shouldn't matter).

Or does it have to be a Curve-curve,curve, curve, rectangle. layer for this to work? 
Sorry if i sound confused, i really want to understand this. I saw one of you comments on another thread. so you seem to be very knowledgeable on this area.

[firstdefence]

This is what you end up with

If you want to keep the component curves separate you can make a compound by going to Layer > Create Compound, this produces a similar result to the geometry > Add but keeps all the elements separate instead of merging them all together, this means you can make adjustments to the individual components of the dagger, add components or delete them.
 

[firstdefence]

Did a bit of tracing and made an example of how compounds might work for you, Saved with history so you can jog back and forth in the history panel.

To change the colour of the compound just select it in the layers panel and choose a colour from the swatch or colour panel.

warrior as compounds.afdesign

 

[Kimo]

1 hour ago, firstdefence said:

Did a bit of tracing and made an example of how compounds might work for you, Saved with history so you can jog back and forth in the history panel.

To change the colour of the compound just select it in the layers panel and choose a colour from the swatch or colour panel.

warrior as compounds.afdesign

 

Thc for your detailed response Firstdefence, i really appreciate it. 

So i have been testing your compound setup. It does allows me to color the entire compound. and i am able to edit the curves. However what i am looking for is a way to color the background of a group of curves/layers, and then individual give those layers another gradient. 
in your compound setup it's the compound itself that holds the color. which means that it's hierarchy wont allow layers beneath to have a different color.  

which is the solution Alessandro Castellani show in his video.  But when i try to recreate it on my computer, the color eiter fills the entire square or only 1 part of mye (curve group). and i don't understand why. 

I need the color layer to be lowest in the hierarchy. 

[gdenby]

Kimo,

"But from my point of view, i though i already had created a curve layer... more specific layer- curve, curse, curve , rectangle(color). 
so in my head this should work, i should now have 3 curves with a compared layer of color. 
or is it the first "layer" that's the issue?, since it a layer and not a curve. *(from what i understand from other forums it don't have a gender yet, and therefore it shouldn't matter)."

Part of the problem seems to be based on terminology.  "layer- curve, curse, curve , rectangle(color" is a set of layers. One may have a blank passthrough layer. But each curve is also  its own layer. And then the color rectangle is its own layer. As a rectangle, it retains its parametric variables, but if converted to curves, it would just be called "curve" and its shape would then need to be changed thru node manipulation.

The issue is that the rectangle (color) layer is not nested within any of the curves and the topmost layer is a "passthrough" similar to a clear window in which the other layers appear.

To me, a problem w. the tutorial vid is that the fellow says he "merges" the curve/layers. The word "merge" is more often used when talking about pixel layers. Vector object are joined, or separated, or split using the "boolean" operations. In this case, the operation was add. When vector objects are added, a single object w. a single periphery is made, and all of them get the attributes of the bottom most layer in the stack.

If I understood the tutorial, the fellow had a bunch of loosely drawn shapes that he wanted to unify into a single silhouette. So he added them, and gave them a uniform fill. But then he placed copies of the original shapes onto the unified one, and added various color gradients and transparencies.

See an attached image:

[Kimo]

10 minutes ago, gdenby said:

Kimo,

"But from my point of view, i though i already had created a curve layer... more specific layer- curve, curse, curve , rectangle(color). 
so in my head this should work, i should now have 3 curves with a compared layer of color. 
or is it the first "layer" that's the issue?, since it a layer and not a curve. *(from what i understand from other forums it don't have a gender yet, and therefore it shouldn't matter)."

Part of the problem seems to be based on terminology.  "layer- curve, curse, curve , rectangle(color" is a set of layers. One may have a blank passthrough layer. But each curve is also  its own layer. And then the color rectangle is its own layer. As a rectangle, it retains its parametric variables, but if converted to curves, it would just be called "curve" and its shape would then need to be changed thru node manipulation.

The issue is that the rectangle (color) layer is not nested within any of the curves and the topmost layer is a "passthrough" similar to a clear window in which the other layers appear.

To me, a problem w. the tutorial vid is that the fellow says he "merges" the curve/layers. The word "merge" is more often used when talking about pixel layers. Vector object are joined, or separated, or split using the "boolean" operations. In this case, the operation was add. When vector objects are added, a single object w. a single periphery is made, and all of them get the attributes of the bottom most layer in the stack.

If I understood the tutorial, the fellow had a bunch of loosely drawn shapes that he wanted to unify into a single silhouette. So he added them, and gave them a uniform fill. But then he placed copies of the original shapes onto the unified one, and added various color gradients and transparencies.

This seems very accurate. 
I am trying to recreate this  *If I understood the tutorial, the fellow had a bunch of loosely drawn shapes that he wanted to unify into a single silhouette. So he added them, and gave them a uniform fill. But then he placed copies of the original shapes onto the unified one, and added various color gradients and transparencies.*

And i have, but in his video he can manipulate the "overall" shapes by using the nodes. 
if i try do the same thing, then when i manipulate the nodes, my colored layer/Overall shape stays where it is. (ofc, this seem logical). 

but either i don't understand the setup in his video, or i misunderstand my curve/layers... shall we say attributes/abilities. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Kimo
easier to read

[Alfred]

12 minutes ago, gdenby said:

When vector objects are added, a single object w. a single periphery is made

More precisely, when overlapping vector objects are added, a single object with a single periphery (a ‘Curve’ object) is made. You can also add vector objects which do not overlap, and when you do so you get a ‘Curves’ object (the same as the result of using the ‘Combine’ command instead of the ‘Add’ command).

[Kimo]

This is where i am atm. 
i would like the colored layer to "follow" when i move my nodes.. ( if it's even possible). but it doesn't.

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, Kimo said:

But from my point of view, i though i already had created a curve layer... more specific layer- curve, curse, curve , rectangle(color). 
so in my head this should work, i should now have 3 curves with a compared layer of color. 
or is it the first "layer" that's the issue?, since it a layer and not a curve. *(from what i understand from other forums it don't have a gender yet, and therefore it shouldn't matter).

I'm sorry but I do not know what you mean by any of this. If you create 3 curves, you have 3 curve layers. Each of these layers can have its own fill color independently of the color of the others. (In the video, he talks about this beginning around 1:40 when he adds colors to the leaves of Turnip Man.)

Regardless, from what you said in your first post I think what you want to do is apply a single color or gradient to (for example) all 3 curves in your "Knife (Group)" layer rather than having to do that for each curve individually, & to do this using a rectangle. If so, you need to begin by adding the 3 curves together to create a single curve.

In the video, he does this at about 5:32. He describes this as 'merging' the layers but if you look carefully he is actually adding them by clicking the Add button on the toolbar. This creates a new Curve layer that at around 6:15 he adds a gradient to directly. After a long (& somewhat rambling) commentary about adding duplicate layers & such, at around 8:50 he finally begins talking about using a rectangle with a gradient (which he names "gradient") as an alternate way to do this. At about 9:20 he begins talking about the most important step in this process, which is to nest the rectangle in the Curve layer.

Somewhere around 10:03 he finally does this. He describes it as turning the curve "into a sort of a group element" & the rectangle as 'masking' the curve, but actually the rectangle is being clipped by the curve layer so that only the part of it that is within the curve layer is visible. Basically, by doing this the curve supplies the shape & the rectangle supplies the color. Watching the Affinity Photo - Clipping vs Masking video tutorial should help you better understand how this works, how options like "Lock Children" affect the parent-child relationship, etc.

In general, I think it is a good idea to browse through the official Affinity Photo videos looking for relevant topics & watching them before searching for ones from other sites like Castellani's. The official ones are usually easy to follow, use the correct terminology, & emphasize the important points, which the others do not always do as well.

EDIT: I just now realized you are using Designer, not Photo, so while some of the official Affinity Photo videos (like the clipping vs. masking one) are relevant to both apps, you probably should start with the official Affinity Designer videos instead.

Edited March 31, 2019 by R C-R

[gdenby]

Attached is a file w. some colored objects and others w. none. The colored objects are currently turned off. If activated, you can see how various areas become colored.

TryThis.afdesign

[Kimo]

3 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I'm sorry but I do not know what you mean by any of this. If you create 3 curves, you have 3 curve layers. Each of these layers can have its own fill color independently of the color of the others. (In the video, he talks about this beginning around 1:40 when he adds colors to the leaves of Turnip Man.)

Regardless, from what you said in your first post I think what you want to do is apply a single color or gradient to (for example) all 3 curves in your "Knife (Group)" layer rather than having to do that for each curve individually, & to do this using a rectangle. If so, you need to begin by adding the 3 curves together to create a single curve.

In the video, he does this at about 5:32. He describes this as 'merging' the layers but if you look carefully he is actually adding them by clicking the Add button on the toolbar. This creates a new Curve layer that at around 6:15 he adds a gradient to directly. After a long (& somewhat rambling) commentary about adding duplicate layers & such, at around 8:50 he finally begins talking about using a rectangle with a gradient (which he names "gradient") as an alternate way to do this. At about 9:20 he begins talking about the most important step in this process, which is to nest the rectangle in the Curve layer.

Somewhere around 10:03 he finally does this. He describes it as turning the curve "into a sort of a group element" & the rectangle as 'masking' the curve, but actually the rectangle is being clipped by the curve layer so that only the part of it that is within the curve layer is visible. Basically, by doing this the curve supplies the shape & the rectangle supplies the color. Watching the Affinity Photo - Clipping vs Masking video tutorial should help you better understand how this works, how options like "Lock Children" affect the parent-child relationship, etc.

In general, I think it is a good idea to browse through the official Affinity Photo videos looking for relevant topics & watching them before searching for ones from other sites like Castellani's. The official ones are usually easy to follow, use the correct terminology, & emphasize the important points, which the others do not always do as well.

I am sorry if i sound confused. my native language is not english, and i do have some issue separate the terminology.. 
based on you lates comment it seem i did misunderstood his video. Would i be correct to say that if he moves a node in his design, the "masked" rectangle would fill the entire shape?
I will go through the tutorial you mentioned to see if i can get a better grasp on it. 

What i hoped to achieve was a "group" of curves that had a "shared" base color.  and when edited, the color would follow with it, as long its inside the rectangle. 
and the on top of that add multiple colors/shadows/effets to the single curve layer. 
i am not even sure this is possible, but the video made me believe it was.

 
in any case thank you for your dedication and answers, even tho i seem confused they do help me "see" the difference in what i am thinking and really doing. 

[Kimo]

13 minutes ago, gdenby said:

Attached is a file w. some colored objects and others w. none. The colored objects are currently turned off. If activated, you can see how various areas become colored.

TryThis.afdesign

Thx for your answer and your file. 
This is what i current have done with my setup. But i have a color layer for every curve i have around 30+, which seems like Alot to work with. 
and i am trying to group them together, and have 1 layer for like 5-10 curves... my issue is that i only can "1 curve with color Vs placing a big fat rectangle across the entire picture". 
i could use a greadiant, as you did. but i would like to keep that for a more detailed effect later in the progress. (i think).

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, Kimo said:

Would i be correct to say that if he moves a node in his design, the "masked" rectangle would fill the entire shape?

The rectangle is not a mask. It is an object clipped to the shape of the curve layer. That means only the part of the rectangle that is completely within the path of the curve will be visible & anything that is not won't be. The placement of the nodes determine the path, so depending on where any of them are moved to will determine how much of the rectangle is visible.

[gdenby]

Affinity allows layer styles to be copied and pasted to other layers. Just make a fill you like in 1 layer, copy the layer. Then select other layers and use the command "layer/Paste Style." That way, all will have the same fill which might be a gradient that can be adjusted in the varoius shapes to work better.

[Kimo]

Just now, R C-R said:

The rectangle is not a mask. It is an object clipped to the shape of the curve layer. That means only the part of the rectangle that is completely within the path of the curve will be visible & anything that is not won't be. The placement of the nodes determine the path, so depending on where any of them are moved to will determine how much of the rectangle is visible.

yes indeed.. and if i wanted that, for 3 layers of curves. I would have to make a combine copy, add the color to that copy, and then place it beneath my 3 curves right?.. 
which again means that when ever i edit one of my 3 curves, i would have to edit my combined curve also?

basically what i am trying to attempt is not possible.

[Kimo]

5 minutes ago, gdenby said:

Affinity allows layer styles to be copied and pasted to other layers. Just make a fill you like in 1 layer, copy the layer. Then select other layers and use the That way, all will have the same fill which might be a gradient that can be adjusted in the varoius shapes to work better.

Could you explain how i find and control the ,command "layer/Paste Style

[gdenby]

My mistake, its the menu command "Edit/Paste Style."

[Kimo]

Well it works, but it's not exactly what i were after. but thx you anyway.