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Nilla's Photography

Colour space: website displays differently to AP jpg

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Hi,

Originally scanned my 35mm neg from 1998 - not a great scan and can't rescan at the moment.

I've attached a copy of the Original and AP jpgs with Preview Inspector details. I'm not experienced with AP yet and as you can see, my AP jpg isn't optimal. However, when I've uploaded this jpg to my website (link enclosed), the colours don't match my AP jpg and look quite flat - this is only one example but if you check others in the link, you'll see what I mean. https://nillasphotography.com/portfolio/indonesia/

Is this because of the RGB/sRGB colour space? If so, how can I upload an optimal image that will be printed in the future but also look good on my website? (Guess this is also a continuation of my question from Monday's post.)

Many thanks

AP.jpg

Original.jpg

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You seem to have exported from Photo using a printer color profile (Epson Standard RGB). You wouldn't want that for web display. Leave it as in the original.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.356), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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Hi @walt.farrell

Many thanks for your response and sorry for the confusion with the order of files attached.

The first image above is what I exported from AP (ColorSync Profile: sRGB) after editing the jpg. The second image is not exported it's the original image with the Epson details, which I scanned with an Epson  scanner.

This is why I'm trying to work out why the first image looks quite flat and washed out as this is only one example of many from this series of photos.

 

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Interesting. To me, the image with sRGB is the more vibrant (less washed out) of the two that you posted.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1903 (18362.356), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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Yes it is @walt.farrell as that's the AP exported file, to which I've made adjustments in AP. Although when in AP itself, the image displays clearer and more vibrant, so am thinking that the settings I use on export aren't correct.

I've attached another example from a scanned 1985 slide film:

  • AP.jpg= screenshot of what I see in AP
  • APExport.jpg= Preview with details of the AP exported file.

As I mentioned in another thread, I need to upload optimal images so that the file can be auto-sent to the print lab from my Cart and is good enough to print anywhere from a 6x4inch print right up to a 24x32inch print. So, I'm playing around with the best settings and opening a can of worms (for me anyway).

Cheers 

APExport.png

AP.png

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That's due to the different color profile used, aka RGB vs sRGB. - For a technical description see here.

Quote

The sRGB transfer function ("gamma")

sRGB also defines a nonlinear transformation between the intensity of these primaries and the actual number stored. The curve is similar to the gamma response of a CRT display. This nonlinear conversion means that sRGB is a reasonably efficient use of the values in an integer-based image file to display human-discernible light levels.

Unlike most other RGB color spaces, the sRGB gamma cannot be expressed as a single numerical value. The overall gamma is approximately 2.2, consisting of a linear (gamma 1.0) section near black, and a non-linear section elsewhere involving a 2.4 exponent and a gamma (slope of log output versus log input) changing from 1.0 through about 2.3. The purpose of the linear section is so the curve does not have an infinite slope at zero, which could cause numerical problems.

 


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

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1 hour ago, Nilla's Photography said:

I also need to calibrate my monitor.

As far as you want to do serious photo work (image manipulation and photo recovering etc.), it's always mandantory to do a monitor calibration and learn a little bit about color spaces and profiling. That way you can make the most and best out of your images then.


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

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Thank you @v_kyr - I much prefer the 35mm medium, processing, printing - I found it so much easier than digital...just my thoughts!

I just want to set everything up correctly before editing photos and thought I had done initially. But, now I find that although I've already edited and uploaded photos for 30+ countries (around 500 photos) to my website, I'm now not sure they're optimal for sending to a print automatically from a Cart (when I set this backend up).

As I have images spanning many years and across 35mm film, slide film, digital (various cameras and aspect ratios), I'm finding it difficult to know what to set for which image medium.

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40 minutes ago, Nilla's Photography said:

I've attached a new Export with the separate new settings, but notice that in Preview Colour, Mode is still RGB - is this correct?

AFAI can see the image use the applied sRGB color profile, that's what the Preview info shows at bottom. - Using sRGB here is pretty Ok since it's the smallest common denominator for all screen (display) devices, no matter if a computer-, tablet-, smartphone - display etc. they all should be able to handle this in terms of color space. So when you use that as a destination color space when scanning 35 mm film or slices with your Epson scanner software it's usually supported everywhere.

19 minutes ago, Nilla's Photography said:

I've followed the 5-step MacBook Display Calibration Assistant but now my images look darker.

Well when I suggested calibration, I was thinking more of a calibration via some calibration device here (Color Munki, Spider etc.), so using a colorimeter, instead of manual eyesight tweaking.


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

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Sorry for late response @v_kyr, ideally I want to set everything for auto sending to a print lab and the reason I'm struggling with settings.

I don't have one of those calibration devices and will need to look into this.

As in my earlier comment, my other issue is that my image displays much sharper in AP than when I export to a jpg. Any ideas why?

I've attached screenshots of what I see in AP(AP.jpg) and its exported jpg (Preview.jpg).

Preview.png

AP.png

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This may depend on the zoomlevel viewed inside AP, if at 100%, or smaller/bigger viewed. For exported JPGs, the size and compression rate do play a role.


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

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...and so will jpg compression, any lossy format will have an affect on the exported result.

I think this post needs to focus as it seems to be going in circles and repeating. I think a crib sheet is needed, barring accurate calibrations. Once happy with the export it would be a good idea to get the printer to print an image to see the physical result of your labours.

  • Scan Negs - Epson colour space 1.8 gamma is applied (is there an option to apply an alternative colourspace such as sRGB IEC1966 2.1)
  • Open scanned image in Affinity and make edits
  • You can check or change the colour format from Document > Colour Format and you can assign a colour space from Document > Assign ICC Profile
  • Set export options
    • Jpg 95%
    • RGB 8-bit
    • ICC profile sRGB IEC1966 2.1

For future reference, I would title your images in your posts such as fig 1, fig 2 or some form of reference to aid legibility when talking about those images. If you upload more than one image into the text space they will invariably be shown in the wrong order, so always add them to the light grey "Drag files here to attach" area and then you can click on them to add as you type. 

Fig 1 or Coffee Icon
icons8-coffee.png.5254e7abd3b19b26e34e4a8619dba423.png

Fig 2 or Apple Logo
icons8-mac_os.png.df7a9029f9cef09f1f597cfc07634e7f.png


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo & Publisher - Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - FeedbackInstagram & Flickr

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