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On 3/23/2019 at 3:53 PM, iamscotty said:

Thanks guys.

I did go to the search from the off but it didn't turn that much up "isometric, studio". 

Probably my bad. I can be impatient at times.

 

I skimmed through all 26 pages so excuse me of this has been said as I most likely missed a lot. ;)

I even needed several rum and cokes to recover. :D 

 

I might be shooting myself in the foot here (almost didn't post it as I intended to design a plug-in for Ai) but I do a hell of a lot of isometric illustration and I reluctantly use Ai to do this which is very time consuming so anything to speed up the process would be a real game changer for me and others.

(Images attached for illustration purpose, not self promotion.)

Behance.thumb.jpg.24d4eab34dc435612c6d000711921ab3.jpg

CBRE-Office.thumb.jpg.67c7fac78c79d4280a085ac28d167480.jpg

There tends to be two approaches to doing iso illustration. The first being the grid method which is not my personal choice because I find it a bit primitive, clunky and it's not that good for accurate proportions and complex shapes like text and curves.

Most vector app's use this approach but they're not always made by iso practitioners so I think they're missing the game here a bit. A lot.

 

The other is the SSR method which is what I use.

In this way you can take a plan elevation and accurately transform it to an isometric projection retaining the proper proportions.

Here's a linky, link.

The thing about the SSR method is that you have to input the scale, skew and rotation every....#$£&'ing....time to achieve this which is very time consuming, confusing,  boring and repetitive as hell so what I did is write a set of simple actions in Ai to do this with one click. (Top. Right. Left and a reverse option for each). DONE!

I'm sure I didn't invent this but it's a bit of an isometric illustration secret. ;)

 

Those simple set of actions made my iso workflow go through the roof and the lack of this option has been the one thing that has stopped me from converting to Affinity Designer.

Having the ability to write actions or even better, having an isometric transform button for each elevation would be like BOOM!

I'm no software Dev but this must be SO simple to incorporate and wouldn't necessarily need it's own widow or menu. It could be tagged onto transform or distort.

Top is like: Scale > 86.062. Skew > 30 degrees. Rotate > -30 degrees.....and so on.

Just a bit of code.

499e6b99e3cd9bb15c764bd93d969a85.jpg.4c379e99e93d5b80b3def158ba85bf36.jpg

Ai doesn't have this as standard, only the ability to do so if you know how. ;) 

I know that this tiny addition would not only make my life easier but make me ditch Ai, move to Affinity and open up iso illustration to a lot more people because people like easy don't they?

If you combine this with Affinity Designer's cool way of snapping stuff together,  the iso grid and even better, at a 30 degree angle (optional) it would make it the go to app for anyone wanting to do iso stuff by a long mile.

Isometrics have become very popular in recent times due to infographics, animation and games and so on so the market here is HUGE.

They're just a bit of a ball ache to do at present with current software.

 

There you go...... Phew!

Here's the small print:

 

Note. If you do incorporate this feature I'd like a new iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, the new improved Affinity Designer app with isometric transform and some rum and coke in return. ;)

Oh...and a yacht as well which I shall call "The Mighty Scotty".

(If this has been suggested before please tell me and I'll crawl into a hole with my rum and coke but without the above items.)

 

 

Some great isometric work there, iamscotty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/9/2019 at 2:15 PM, iamscotty said:

Hey @Ben, thanks for the reply.

 

I really need to have a go myself as it's difficult to explain and understand via a forum but I think by looking at the work through that @GarryP did and what you've said the isometric function and edit in plane look great if it has the option to expand the SSR effect.

I understand that Designer has a different approach to handling the SSR formula but SSR has only one task and it's super simple.

To take an existing shape and convert it to an isometric/axonometric projection. Either top, right or bottom.

The reason of this is that the original shape, dimensions and scale may be very important to the end (isometric) result.

All the important making and doing is done in the flat elevation and then converted not the other way around.

It's kind of the fundaments of working in isometrics.

That could have it's use but it's like putting the horse behind the cart if you get my drift.

You make flat,  then convert and then build.

That shape is then the basis for building whatever you want to make and you've left SSR behind at that point.

Creating in the isometric plane is okay but you're already in a distorted view so it can't be accurate from the start.

I've been working making isometric designs and illustrations for 32 years now so I can see it from a practitioners view point and although these tools look great they do seem to be missing the point a little from what I see but enough to render it almost useless to build complex shapes and designs that are faithful and accurate to the original.

I started off doing isometrics on a drawing board using pens, iso guides and rulers and then Mac Classic's came out and someone worked out the SSR formula in Freehand.

That was the big transformation but the rule has stayed the same: Make your flat shape. Apply SSR. Build your isometric object.

 

To show you how I work and use SSR to build isometrics I wanted to take something that's original (flat) appearance is very important so I chose the Affinity Designer icon/logo.

I made a flat, paths version of it, converted it to iso using SSR and only then started to build the 3D.

All the information I needed is in step 1.

All the conversion is done in step 2.

Everything after that is just embellishment, faffing about and building using the same principles as the "cube with a punched out corner" I did above.

I can't imagine recreating the Affinity Designer logo using "edit in plane" with any degree of accuracy.

Please don't get me wrong here.

I have HUGE respect for you guys that put these packages together and I'm telling you this with the very best intentions (I want to use Designer for isometrics) but when it comes to this area I do feel you may be missing the point a little and that would be a great pity.

 

Step1.jpg.728b7be2544d3d8d1bbeebf1d808c994.jpgStep2.jpg.e5329958dc45449bd33e4a3d711d9eb8.jpgStep3.jpg.fcc13f3245d98c2d2ec614a412835647.jpgStep4.jpg.40d3e7764b755beb05f232957f64c93b.jpgStep5.jpg.2f6da5a10258334d33eccc6c41a3a59f.jpgStep6.jpg.e2096d4de49944bbbf7aada71e4d9328.jpg

 

 

 

Now, that's cool.

I need to explore isometric for sure...

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While smart icon generator seems "smart" all it appears to do is extrude a 2D image through an isometric plane, and replicate the edge pixels on the other faces.  It's an illusion, more than real isometric.

 


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On 5/7/2019 at 10:39 AM, Ben said:

Also - while 86.603 sounds like a good approximation - that's actually quite inaccurate if you start to rely on our snapping.  So - if I were to try to align a set of objects relying on that scaling, but applying various rotations to fit to the three isometric planes - you'd find that there would be a significant error, and that error would grow as you snap one object to another.

 

Our snapping system has a certain tolerance when determining equality in snapping lines.  The best solution is to use our cube system to maintain the highest precision.  If you were to do the SSR transformation yourself, you are better off using "*sin(60)" in our transform panel to scale the object.  That will produce a scaling that is as accurate as possible (for computer maths).

For me personally and the work I do it's more important that the shape I convert to iso fit together properly and the angles match up to each other with no gapping which I guess may affect the snapping.

I'm thinking that if three paths that you want to close together like in a cube I could see that whatever drives the snapping function may not recognise that they should go together if the paths are not correct to each other if you get my drift?

(I may be talking out of my back end here so sorry if that's the case.)

If Designer's Isometric studio all works on the same principles and calculations so everything fits together then that would be a dream.

I've worked with other peoples assets that have used a slightly different calculation and there is very little difference side by side but it's quite important to use the same process for each thing you are working on to keep continuity.

I'm an Illustrator and not a Mathematician so whatever is easiest and best for workflow is a lot more important to me than decimal places. ;) 

 

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Quote

While smart icon generator seems "smart" all it appears to do is extrude a 2D image through an isometric plane...

Exactly. And that's the misconception that is so pervasive nowadays; that isometric drawing is nothing more than just distorting a plan view into "30° angles" and extruding it into blocky shapes.

I blame that largely on two things:

  • The misappropriation of the "isometric" term by those creating old-style aliased computer game artwork using a 1:2 rise-to-run pixel grid (which is neither isometric nor dimetric; it's just an arbitrary oblique).
  • The nearly complete absence of features in the vast majority of mainstream vector-based drawing programs expressly supporting axonometric drawing, ever since the advent of the "desktop revolution" in the mid-80s.

The latter is an ironic and tragic pity, because:

  • Axonometric drawing is, by definition, a 2D drawing discipline; and one every bit as venerable as the 2D converging "vanishing point" perspective still universally taught in common art classes.
  • Axonometric drawing is applicable to all styles of commercial illustration. It is not just apropos to the purview of mechanical engineering departments.
  • 2D axonometric drawing is no more "obsoleted" by 3D CAD than  2D "vanishing point perspective" is "obsoleted" by 3D artwork modeling programs.
  • Mainstream Bezier-based drawing programs are 2D drawing programs used for all kinds of commercial illustration.
  • Mainstream Bezier-based drawing programs do, in fact, provide the geometry necessary for axonometric drawing; their interface design just tends to hide it.

The result is three and a half decades of neglect of one of the most important 2D drawing disciplines by most of the largest vendors of ostensibly "wide based" commercial illustration software. That's three and a half decades of software advancement and users' potential for skill-broadening fun and profit already lost.

JET

 

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23 hours ago, Ben said:

While smart icon generator seems "smart" all it appears to do is extrude a 2D image through an isometric plane, and replicate the edge pixels on the other faces.  It's an illusion, more than real isometric.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, Ben.

It does speed up things, if you need it.

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On 5/13/2019 at 3:52 PM, JET_Affinity said:

The result is three and a half decades of neglect of one of the most important 2D drawing disciplines

A bit OT, but don't know if anyone here have watched Silicon Valley, the TV show (funny how google lists it the first, it before the actual place!).... Gotta love the (isometric?...slowly remembering...is when same scale was used for each axe, right?) graphics they have for the intro... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley_(TV_series)#/media/File:Silicon_valley_title.png     ...IMO, very well combined with the music and slight animation.

Plus, the startups I've worked at, were indeed JUST like that. At times is so faithful that is painful.

I see application of these graphics everywhere, I've done quite some works with very rudimentary techniques while at companies. Specially technical books, but also anything tutorial and education related have big chances of requiring from you these graphics. 

Heck I'd have loved this while getting into a bunch of "isometric" based indy games... (as an artist).

It's funny how the brain's cache deletes all what ain't needed for a while... I studied 3 years of technical drawing at university, then  many years to get a vacant as a technical (and artistic) drawing teacher for the gov. Forgot even the basic stuff, lol. So, it's good to read some write-ups like that from time to time...


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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11 hours ago, SrPx said:

A bit OT, but don't know if anyone here have watched Silicon Valley, the TV show (funny how google lists it the first, it before the actual place!).... Gotta love the (isometric?...slowly remembering...is when same scale was used for each axe, right?) graphics they have for the intro... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley_(TV_series)#/media/File:Silicon_valley_title.png     ...IMO, very well combined with the music and slight animation.

Plus, the startups I've worked at, were indeed JUST like that. At times is so faithful that is painful.

I see application of these graphics everywhere, I've done quite some works with very rudimentary techniques while at companies. Specially technical books, but also anything tutorial and education related have big chances of requiring from you these graphics. 

Heck I'd have loved this while getting into a bunch of "isometric" based indy games... (as an artist).

It's funny how the brain's cache deletes all what ain't needed for a while... I studied 3 years of technical drawing at university, then  many years to get a vacant as a technical (and artistic) drawing teacher for the gov. Forgot even the basic stuff, lol. So, it's good to read some write-ups like that from time to time...

Software development is faster then some brains, lol, especially after a certian age.....

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ya calling me old fart, huh? I bet I can run faster..... (also, latest iterations with gen Y and/or millennials, at some companies didn't make me have any fear for competition, mwahaha...going always for the easy ways makes that bunch a tad "softer".... )

(Edit:  er.... all the above read in a humorous light tone, please....with any Austin Powers impression.... fat bastard is preferred. )


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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