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casterle

Live Layer Filter and layer stack position

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I have an image with several layers. 4 of these layers are Curve Layers containing Pixel Layers. 

I added a Live Unsharp Mask to a Curve Layer and the effect is restricted to that of my image. This is as I'd expect. 

If, however, I move the Live Unsharp Mask up to the top level in the layers stack it seems to apply to everything - both layers below it (as I'd expect) as well as those above. Is this expected?

 

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Are you sure it applies to the layers above because I don't think it should, either upload the file or take a screenshot of the layers panel :)

 

example:-

Screen-Shot-2019-02-21-at-22-35-41.png


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo, Publisher Beta 1.7.0.140, Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-12, - iPad2 iOS 9.35 B|  Instagram & Flickr - Affinity Designer (ADe) Tutorials - Affinity Photo (APh) Tutorials - Public Domain Images

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2 hours ago, casterle said:

If, however, I move the Live Unsharp Mask up to the top level in the layers stack it seems to apply to everything - both layers below it (as I'd expect) as well as those above.

That confuses me a bit. If you move it "up to the top level in the layers stack" then how is there anything above it to be affected?

Please give us a screenshot, and also a sample .afdesign or .afphoto file that demonstrates it.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.258 Beta
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Walt, I can understand why you're confused. I meant if I move it to the top level of indentation rather than to the top of the layers stack. 

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On 2/21/2019 at 3:34 PM, firstdefence said:

Are you sure it applies to the layers above because I don't think it should, either upload the file or take a screenshot of the layers panel :)

 

example:-

Screen-Shot-2019-02-21-at-22-35-41.png

Here are before and after screenshots.

I have the unsharp mask above the background and below the two colorized layers. In the top screenshot the mask is disabled. In the bottom screenshot it is enabled. Note that the mask is applied to layers both above and below it.

unsharp1.thumb.png.5c877155d7ded7e00a62bdc891ae3610.png

unsharp2.thumb.png.a7d66531fa6c0afa8dbc2d7a3e2dedce.png

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I just tried this in the beta (1.7.0.243) and find the same issue. I'll submit a bug report (I'm assuming this isn't the way it should work).

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Your unsharp mask has sharpened the background. Your other adjustment layers on top have simply been working with this sharpened image and therefore appear sharpened!

John


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and Designer 1.6.5.123, (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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24 minutes ago, John Rostron said:

Your unsharp mask has sharpened the background. Your other adjustment layers on top have simply been working with this sharpened image and therefore appear sharpened!

John

But each of those layers have their own pixel data which appears above the mask. Shouldn't that data be applied on top of the sharpened background, replacing it with its unsharpened pixels?

Layers.png

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If those layers were solid/opaque and were set to normal blend mode you wouldn't see any sharpening because those layers that colour the hat would be blocking the effect of the sharpening filter.

You can paint on the Unsharp Mask layer by selecting the brush tool, an appropriate brush like a round brush about 70-90 hardness and the colour black. Select the unsharp mask layer and paint over the hat area this should remove the unsharp effect.

 


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo, Publisher Beta 1.7.0.140, Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-12, - iPad2 iOS 9.35 B|  Instagram & Flickr - Affinity Designer (ADe) Tutorials - Affinity Photo (APh) Tutorials - Public Domain Images

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This is before I painted black on the unsharp mask layer, the unsharpening has affected the hat texture under the coloured layer that is set to blend mode Colour.
Screen-Shot-2019-02-23-at-21-17-09.png

This is after I painted black onto the unsharp mask layer where the hat is.
Screen-Shot-2019-02-23-at-21-24-32.png


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo, Publisher Beta 1.7.0.140, Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-12, - iPad2 iOS 9.35 B|  Instagram & Flickr - Affinity Designer (ADe) Tutorials - Affinity Photo (APh) Tutorials - Public Domain Images

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1 hour ago, firstdefence said:

If those layers were solid/opaque and were set to normal blend mode you wouldn't see any sharpening because those layers that colour the hat would be blocking the effect of the sharpening filter.

You can paint on the Unsharp Mask layer by selecting the brush tool, an appropriate brush like a round brush about 70-90 hardness and the colour black. Select the unsharp mask layer and paint over the hat area this should remove the unsharp effect.

 

I see what's going on now. I think I was confused by the Pixel Layers that were created when I applied color to my Curve Layers. I thought I was creating a piece of image that would overlay (replace) what was below it. Of course that doesn't make any sense and wouldn't, I imagine, be desirable. 

Thank you!

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1 hour ago, firstdefence said:

This is before I painted black on the unsharp mask layer, the unsharpening has affected the hat texture under the coloured layer that is set to blend mode Colour.
Screen-Shot-2019-02-23-at-21-17-09.png

This is after I painted black onto the unsharp mask layer where the hat is.
Screen-Shot-2019-02-23-at-21-24-32.png

 

I've got the masks I need in the Curve Layers. Is there some way to copy them into the unsharp mask?

 

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iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo, Publisher Beta 1.7.0.140, Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-12, - iPad2 iOS 9.35 B|  Instagram & Flickr - Affinity Designer (ADe) Tutorials - Affinity Photo (APh) Tutorials - Public Domain Images

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11 hours ago, casterle said:

 

I've got the masks I need in the Curve Layers. Is there some way to copy them into the unsharp mask?

 

You can save any mask (such as in your Curve layer) to a spare channel or to a file (Select > Save Selection). You can select the target layer  (USM) and load the mask into it (Select > Load  Selection).

John


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and Designer 1.6.5.123, (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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On 2/24/2019 at 3:30 AM, John Rostron said:

You can save any mask (such as in your Curve layer) to a spare channel or to a file (Select > Save Selection). You can select the target layer  (USM) and load the mask into it (Select > Load  Selection).

John

I think I'm confused by masks vs selections. When I created the Curve Layer I used the Pen Tool to make a closed path. I did not click on the 'Mask' or "Selection' buttons on the Pen Tools options bar. 

I then selected the Brush Tool and painted over the selected area on the Curve Layer. This created a new Pixel Layer under the Curve Layer. 

I gather that the Pixel Layer contains the contents of the brush that will be applied via the mask I drew, but what is the Curve Layer - it apparently acts like a selection since I can save/load it (but I didn't click the Selection button) and a mask (but I didn't click the Mask button either)?

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7 minutes ago, casterle said:

I think I'm confused by masks vs selections.

I think that I am as well. Sorry to have confused you. 

John


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and Designer 1.6.5.123, (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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17 minutes ago, John Rostron said:

I think that I am as well. Sorry to have confused you. 

John

John, you didn't confuse me! I'm not far enough along in learning AP to understand how what works.

What you did do is solve my problem because I can, as you indicated, save and load my Curve Layer. Not only that, but I can save and load groups of Curve Layers! I don't understand why I can do that, but I hope I will.

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On 2/23/2019 at 7:38 PM, casterle said:

But each of those layers have their own pixel data which appears above the mask. Shouldn't that data be applied on top of the sharpened background, replacing it with its unsharpened pixels?

Layers.png

Hi casterle,
What you have in the screenshot above is called layer clipping. You are using a closed shape (curve) as a clipping layer to limit the visibility of it(s) child object(s) - the pixel layers you placed inside.

See the attached file for a simpler example: clipping.afphoto

The layer on top is a shape (curve) I've drawn with the Pen Tool - it's being used as a clipping layer. The background layer (which I have placed inside it) is the child (the clipped object). The child is only visible inside the boundaries of the clipping object  (the shape I've drawn with the Pen Tool). If you select the Background layer (in the Layers panel) and drag it to outside the curve (placing it above it in the layers hierarchy) - you will see the whole pixel image. To place it again inside the shape (curve) drag it again over the curve layer (NOT over its thumbnail but over the area/label) on the right. This is different from masking (although visually it may look the same) or pixel selections which is another thing entirely.

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On 2/25/2019 at 11:37 AM, MEB said:

Hi casterle,
What you have in the screenshot above is called layer clipping. You are using a closed shape (curve) as a clipping layer to limit the visibility of it(s) child object(s) - the pixel layers you placed inside.

See the attached file for a simpler example: clipping.afphoto

The layer on top is a shape (curve) I've drawn with the Pen Tool - it's being used as a clipping layer. The background layer (which I have placed inside it) is the child (the clipped object). The child is only visible inside the boundaries of the clipping object  (the shape I've drawn with the Pen Tool). If you select the Background layer (in the Layers panel) and drag it to outside the curve (placing it above it in the layers hierarchy) - you will see the whole pixel image. To place it again inside the shape (curve) drag it again over the curve layer (NOT over its thumbnail but over the area/label) on the right. This is different from masking (although visually it may look the same) or pixel selections which is another thing entirely.

Thank you, MEB. I truly appreciate your help and patience.

 

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