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Morning, 

I recorded a macro which content is to create  3-4 non destructive levels (Channel mixer, Dodge&Burn custom macro, Levels, HSL) with specific settings and apply it to a batch (in this case is a fashion studio catalogue with the same settings). What happened is that after applying the layers it automatically flatten the image, save it and close it, so I don't have the chance to tweak those levels anymore. Manually creating those levels one pic at a time is a pain in the a** when it comes to do it on a big batch. 

I was used to perform this smoothly in PS actions and still have all my layers available. Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance

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Hi Massi,

What format are you batch converting to? 

If JPG, then the image would be flattened as JPG doesn't support Layers.  

If you batch to a .afphoto file then the Adjustment Layers would be retained and allow you to alter the Adjustments again.

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I use Tiff, but it shouldn't matter really. Why does it actually? Am I not free to keep levels on jpgs? What if I'm working on a graphic layout on top of a Hires jpg and I need to apply it to 10 pics? Kinda non sense don't you think? 

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2 hours ago, Massi said:

Am I not free to keep levels on jpgs?

The jpg file format supports three 8 bit "color channels" for a maximum of 16,777,216 different color levels. (See for example this web page for more about color bit depth.) However, because JPEG compression is lossy, typical jpg files will include considerably fewer than that many color levels. That file format also does not support layers or transparency, so you can't 'overlay' anything on a file & preserve the layer structure or transparency if you export it to the jpg format.


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.6.11.85 & Affinity Designer 1.6..4.45 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.1.1

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Ok I guess we both had a misunderstanding on the jpg thing, now I understand what you meant before and why you explained me the compression thing, but anyways, i'm using TiFF, not jpg and didn't want to export in JPG.

 As you can see on my macro, there's no saving/export command, I just wanted to apply those levels on my Tiffs and just leave it like that in order to continue working on those tiffs one by one for further adjustments/retouch. My point is that I don't understand why after applying the macro with all those levels, the program just decided save in Tiff but flatten, since the only commands on my marcos were to create levels, nothing more. 

thanks

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Since the batch processing flattens the image during it's processing. If you instead would manually export to TIFF and there check the APh keep layers options for the TIFF export, then it won't flatten during the conversion process and keep the layers.

BTW ...

50 minutes ago, Massi said:

As you can see on my macro, there's no saving/export command...

... you either way can't record exporting in macros so far!


☛ Affinity Designer 1.6.1 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.6.7 ◆ OSX El Capitan

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40 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Since the batch processing flattens the image during it's processing. If you instead would manually export to TIFF and there check the APh keep layers options for the TIFF export, then it won't flatten during the conversion process and keep the layers.

I think the issue is batch processing does not include any way to enable saving layers in the processed tiffs.
1065614867_tiffexportoptions.jpg.507c4b525acdc8c6449d95c3f591dafb.jpg

Even for manual exports, without that option ticked, layers are not preserved, although I think their effects on the image are.


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.6.11.85 & Affinity Designer 1.6..4.45 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.1.1

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Basically, unless at some time Photo adds the ability to save Affinity layers when batch exporting to TIFF, by an extension to the "..." dialog, you'll need to have the batch job export as .afphoto to keep your adjustments as layers that can be reworked later.

If you also want TIFFs with those adjustments baked-in for immediate use, you can export both formats from the batch job.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.331 Beta       / Affinity Designer 1.6..5.123 and 1.7.0.331 Beta    / Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.330 Beta

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

Basically, unless at some time Photo adds the ability to save Affinity layers when batch exporting to TIFF, by an extension to the "..." dialog, you'll need to have the batch job export as .afphoto to keep your adjustments as layers that can be reworked later.

Which probably makes the most sense anyway, considering that the adjustment layers are not likely to be editable in any other apps besides the Affinity ones. 


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.6.11.85 & Affinity Designer 1.6..4.45 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.1.1

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

Basically, unless at some time Photo adds the ability to save Affinity layers when batch exporting to TIFF, by an extension to the "..." dialog,

I'll get this logged as an improvement, i was surprised it was missing from the options when i just checked.  Could be a valid reason why it's not there, but i should find out more once it's been logged  :) 

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On 2/22/2019 at 1:18 PM, walt.farrell said:

Basically, unless at some time Photo adds the ability to save Affinity layers when batch exporting to TIFF, by an extension to the "..." dialog, you'll need to have the batch job export as .afphoto to keep your adjustments as layers that can be reworked later.

If you also want TIFFs with those adjustments baked-in for immediate use, you can export both formats from the batch job.

Meaning that I can keep the levels from the macro only selecting both .aphoto and Tiff in the batch window? If so, I should get rid of the (useless to me) .aphoto files.

I also don't get if, in order to have that option, my first file should be a .aphoto file  or I can do it from my existing tiffs (export from tiff to a.photo+tiff) after they come from Capture One. 

I still don't understand what's the benefit on working on .afphoto or .psd files depending on the software you use, when using Tiff is the most looseless versatile option, especially if you work with a retoucher or any other person working with PS. I still have PS for things where APh is not fully reliable for real life productions, where batching/actions/exporting should go smooth and intuitive.

Quality wise, is not a good move either. From Capture One you can natively export Tiff and PSD. So just because in AP some operations works better when working on .aphoto file, I should go through another export (let's say from Tiff to .aphoto), losing quality even before retouching skin for example....sorry it just make no sense. It should be simple, and the way it it is just more time consuming and limited.     

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32 minutes ago, Massi said:

Meaning that I can keep the levels from the macro only selecting both .aphoto and Tiff in the batch window? If so, I should get rid of the (useless to me) .aphoto files.

I also don't get if, in order to have that option, my first file should be a .aphoto file  or I can do it from my existing tiffs (export from tiff to a.photo+tiff) after they come from Capture One. 

I still don't understand what's the benefit on working on .afphoto or .psd files depending on the software you use, when using Tiff is the most looseless versatile option, especially if you work with a retoucher or any other person working with PS. I still have PS for things where APh is not fully reliable for real life productions, where batching/actions/exporting should go smooth and intuitive.

Quality wise, is not a good move either. From Capture One you can natively export Tiff and PSD. So just because in AP some operations works better when working on .aphoto file, I should go through another export (let's say from Tiff to .aphoto), losing quality even before retouching skin for example....sorry it just make no sense. It should be simple, and the way it it is just more time consuming and limited.     

You can only keep the levels editable if you export to .afphoto in your batch job. The levels will not be editable in any .tiff you export from a batch job at this time, because Affinity Photo does not provide the option to save the Affinity Photo layers in .tiff files exported from batch jobs. Thus the .afphoto files are not worthless to you, and you should keep them.

There is no quality loss in a .afphoto file. Any compression used there is lossless, too, and .afphoto is your best export method from Affinity Photo to keep all the image data, and all the Affinity data, and have it all editable in the future. (Just as your best export medium from PhotoShop is a .psd file if you want to save everything, your best export medium from Affinity Photo is a .afphoto file.)

Even if you export .tiff files manually (not via batch) and tell Photo to save the Affinity Photo layers in them, those layers will not be accessible to any other program outside of the Affinity suite of programs (Photo, Designer, Publisher). And there is some Affinity-specific information which is never saved in the .tiff files, but that may be limited to the history of editing actions. (Sorry, I don't remember for sure which data Affinity omits from its layered TIFF files; I've only done a few experiments in that area, a while ago.)


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.331 Beta       / Affinity Designer 1.6..5.123 and 1.7.0.331 Beta    / Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.330 Beta

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27 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

And there is some Affinity-specific information which is never saved in the .tiff files, but that may be limited to the history of editing actions.

Just guessing but I think that would include any snapshots layers added to the file & (if included) a custom document color palette.


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.6.11.85 & Affinity Designer 1.6..4.45 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.1.1

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7 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Just guessing but I think that would include any snapshots layers added to the file & (if included) a custom document color palette.

If I remember correctly, and to my surprise at the time, snapshots are saved. I didn't check palettes, though.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.331 Beta       / Affinity Designer 1.6..5.123 and 1.7.0.331 Beta    / Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.330 Beta

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

You can only keep the levels editable if you export to .afphoto in your batch job. The levels will not be editable in any .tiff you export from a batch job at this time, because Affinity Photo does not provide the option to save the Affinity Photo layers in .tiff files exported from batch jobs. Thus the .afphoto files are not worthless to you, and you should keep them.

There is no quality loss in a .afphoto file. Any compression used there is lossless, too, and .afphoto is your best export method from Affinity Photo to keep all the image data, and all the Affinity data, and have it all editable in the future. (Just as your best export medium from PhotoShop is a .psd file if you want to save everything, your best export medium from Affinity Photo is a .afphoto file.)

Even if you export .tiff files manually (not via batch) and tell Photo to save the Affinity Photo layers in them, those layers will not be accessible to any other program outside of the Affinity suite of programs (Photo, Designer, Publisher). And there is some Affinity-specific information which is never saved in the .tiff files, but that may be limited to the history of editing actions. (Sorry, I don't remember for sure which data Affinity omits from its layered TIFF files; I've only done a few experiments in that area, a while ago.)

Hi Walt, 

thanks for all this info. I guess for my next project I'll try this workflow: RAW to Capture One to Tiffs (8-16bits 300dpi) to .aphoto (converted in APh) to final delivery (Jpgs,etc..).

Have a good one! 

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

If I remember correctly, and to my surprise at the time, snapshots are saved.

Any idea on how they are saved in the tiffs, like with private tags or as separate 'flat' image layers?


Affinity Photo 1.6.7 & Affinity Designer 1.6.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.6.11.85 & Affinity Designer 1.6..4.45 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.1.1

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42 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Any idea on how they are saved in the tiffs, like with private tags or as separate 'flat' image layers

If you choose to save Affinity Layers in your exported tiff files they are all saved with private tags, as TIFF doesn't support layers otherwise.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.331 Beta       / Affinity Designer 1.6..5.123 and 1.7.0.331 Beta    / Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.330 Beta

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