A_B_C Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Hi there, I don’t know if that has been reported already. Here are the steps to reproduce the issue: Select the Crop Tool, and adjust the crop area. You will see that you can reposition the crop frame by simply clicking inside and dragging the crop frame around Apply the crop Reselect the Crop Tool, and try to reposition the crop frame as you did before It’s not possible. Click + drag will create an entirely new crop frame! Not good. Thanks for all you do! Oh, and what about … uhm … sticky settings for the Crop Tool …? Alex Crop.mov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Chris B Posted February 4, 2019 Staff Share Posted February 4, 2019 Hi Alex, Isn't this how it's always been? It seems to be the case with 1.6 but I could be missing something. This is an awkward one because I don't think the current behaviour is a bug, it's just not the behaviour you want. I like being able to create a new crop but I can also appreciate you want to move the existing crop position. I think some new context tools could improve this behaviour and let the user make it act like they want. I believe cropping is something dev want to change at some point. They tried it for 1.7 but pulled the changes as they weren't happy with them. I put a few improvement requests in last week for sticky crop settings so hopefully we'll see those soon. manu schwendener 1 How to format a bug report | Learning Resources | List of V2 FAQs | YouTube Tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_B_C Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 Hi Chris, well … it might have been always like this, but I was under the impression that the Crop Tool got reworked in the recent beta cycle. Let me explain why I believed it to be a bug, or rather, let me suggest that you try this: Select the Crop Tool, and adjust the crop area. You will see that you can reposition the crop frame by simply clicking inside and dragging the crop frame around Apply the crop Reselect the Crop Tool Now, instead of trying to reposition the crop frame, move one of its handles Use Cmd + Z to undo the handle move When you hover over the crop frame with the mouse now, you will notice that the cursor has changed, and now you can actually reposition the frame! Why that? Doesn’t that look a bit inconsistent? Sure, I can remember to go these additional steps for what I want to achieve, but basically, I would believe that a user who selects the Crop Tool after having made a crop is more likely to intend to adjust the crop (either by moving the handles or by repositioning the frame) than to start anew from scratch. If that ain’t a bug, then please file it as a suggestion … Alex Strange.mov hawk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_B_C Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 Furthermore, I noticed that rotating the image in the crop area has become more laggy in the last betas, probably due to the background darkening and my vintage computer setup … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 > Isn't this how it's always been? I think so, too. And I use cropping a lot. > I would believe that a user who selects the Crop Tool after having made a crop is more likely to intend to adjust the crop > (either by moving the handles or by repositioning the frame) than to start anew from scratch. I absolutely agree.My proposition (AFP-413) was to not undo everything when I click cmd+z but only undo the cropping, while keeping the crop area marked as I had set it before – so I can adjust _a bit_ without having to start from scratch. > what about … uhm … sticky settings.110: "Crop tool remembers settings for darken, reveal, overlay. More to follow." A_B_C 1 manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Your movies are intresting, A_B_C! Are you using AP on Windows? (Probably not, because you have been posting here since before the windows version existed.) AP has never behaved like this for me. – I apply a crop – I reselect the crop tool => This has never shown me the part of the photo again that I've cropped off in step 1. Never in the sense of 'since before AP officially launched'. I don't use layers, can the difference be related to that? manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 > rotating the image in the crop area has become more laggy in the last betas If I open the same photo in Beta.110 and in 1.6.7 there isn't a visible difference for me. I see what you mean with laggy, but no obvious difference between those versions. Again, maybe related to me working directly on the background layer. manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_B_C Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 14 hours ago, manu schwendener said: Are you using AP on Windows? No, my videos were made with a beta iteration of the Mac version, and I believe what you’re describing (“this has never shown me the part of the photo again that I've cropped off in step 1”) has been added to the beta only. I could be mistaken, but I don’t believe to have seen this in the app store version yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I'm not seeing that behaviour in beta, either (on MacBook Pro). manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_B_C Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 Ah, that could be the case, because my video was made in .109, and in .110 they added a “Reveal Canvas” checkbox to the Crop Tool which defaults to “off.” If you are using .110, try to check it and see if it makes a difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Ah. (It shows me the rest of the photo, thank you. But it also turns the background bright, which I'd rather have set to dark.) I agree with your post 1 then: it should be possible to reposition the crop frame by dragging it, also when you reselect the Crop Tool. A_B_C 1 manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Chris B Posted February 11, 2019 Staff Share Posted February 11, 2019 With Reveal enabled, I would want the crop to move as opposed to be resized. With Reveal disabled, I wouldn't want the crop to move because I'd end up with a transparent area because the crop fits the dimensions of the image. What are your thoughts on that? I'm not sure if we could have it working that way or if we should just force the move instead of resize... How to format a bug report | Learning Resources | List of V2 FAQs | YouTube Tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 > With Reveal enabled, I would want the crop to move as opposed to be resized. Why are they mutually exclusive? What I would like to happen: - I crop a photo - I have Reveal enabled - I click on the Crop Tool again - This shows me the original photo outside of the lines of my previous crop - Now I can decide if I want to move or resize the crop, just as I can when I use the Crop Tool for the first time manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Chris B Posted February 11, 2019 Staff Share Posted February 11, 2019 Because if Reveal is disabled, when I re-enter the crop, the crop boundary is the same size as the image boundary. This means moving the crop boundary would add a transparent area. Surely the desired behaviour here is to resize the crop because why would you want to move it to include a transparent area? If Reveal is enabled, then yes I would want to be able to move the crop as there's space to move it to that won't add a transparent edge. They aren't currently mutually exclusive as both force the resize instead of moving the crop. I was asking if you think they should be mutually exclusive. We are now in the realms of what we think it should do as opposed to it being a bug or not. I'll escalate it to dev. How to format a bug report | Learning Resources | List of V2 FAQs | YouTube Tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 > I was asking if you think they should be mutually exclusive. Ah. Thank you. 1) When Reveal is enabled, both should be possible: move and resize 2) When Reveal is disabled, I don't really care. Take the one that's easier to program. ----- I have another "problem" with this, though: I would like to use the behaviour of 1) "Reveal enabled" But I would also like my background to be dark, which I could achieve by unchecking Reveal. But then I lose the functionality of 1) manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_B_C Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 Hi Chris, as for suggestions, I would like to make these comments: Regarding the Darken mode, I would suggest that there should be a slider in the preferences that allows the user to adjust the opacity of the area outside the crop area to arbitrary degrees. I still find the current area outside the crop area too bright. Regarding the question of Moving the crop area vs. Creating a new crop area, I believe these two options should be available to the user, whether they choose to reveal the canvas or not. Though I believe it natural that a user who reselects the Crop Tool intends to adjust the given crop (by moving the area or the like) rather than creating a new crop from scratch, I would nonetheless say that the two options should be decoupled from the Reveal option. Unfortunately, I fear there is no modifier key left for toggling between these options. And the context toolbar is already overburdened. On a 13" notebook screen, not even all of the present options will be available other than by an additional fly-out menu. So I guess you won’t be overly enthusiastic about adding a radio button selector to the context toolbar similar to the one available for the pixel selection tools. So if none of these solutions is acceptable (modifier key, radio button), you could still differentiate between Moving the crop frame vs. Creating a new crop frame on the basis of the mouse pointer location. What if dragging the frame of the crop area (but not on one of the handles) would allow the user to reposition the crop area, while dragging inside the crop area would create a new crop area from scratch? Dragging outside the crop area could still be used for rotating. If you allowed a generous pixel tolerance for catching the frame this solution could be as convenient as the current one. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Reveal enabled: > there should be a slider in the preferences that allows the user to adjust the opacity of the area outside the crop area Yes > I find the current area outside the crop area too bright. Me too > Click and drag outside to rotate I agree > Click and drag handles to resize I agree > Click and drag inside to create new crop I don't agree. To be consistent it needs to be "Click and drag inside to reposition" > ... create new crop You resize and/or reposition and/or rotate, then you press enter. > Click and drag frame Not necessary manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velarde Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Haven't downloaded the latest beta since I'm still waiting for Affinity to add Sticky settings to the crop tool... I just read the beta release notes before I hit the download button... But from reading this thread, it looks like the programmers are overthinking and making the crop tool more complicated than this simple (but important) function should be.... ------------------------ Fernando Velarde www.velarde.com Instagram.com/soyfervelarde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_B_C Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 So, Manu, you don’t need the option of replacing an existing crop area with a new one from scratch? You basically only want to adjust the crop area, when returning to an already made crop? That’s fine with me. I believe don’t need the option of creating an entirely new crop area either. But I was under the impression that the developers are reluctant to give up that option. Just to clarify, by “creating a new crop area” I mean what happens in my video below. You can see that the existing crop area is not moved when I click inside, but a new crop area which replaces the existing one is created. New.mov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 > you don’t need the option of replacing an existing crop area with a new one from scratch? I don't think so, no. > You basically only want to adjust the crop area, when returning to an already made crop? Yes. > my video This is with Reveal disabled. I was talking about Reveal enabled. manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Andy Somerfield Posted February 12, 2019 Staff Share Posted February 12, 2019 All, Thanks for the input in this thread. We hadn't really considered the case where a user would reenter the crop tool after cropping before - so I have made the following changes for build .111 - When reentering the crop tool, dragging inside the existing crop will move it, as opposed to creating a new crop. - Unless you press the "Reset" button on the context toolbar - in which case you can create a new crop by dragging. - Dragging the frame will always move the crop (as suggested by A_B_C). Hopefully this will make things a bit more useable, Thanks, Andy. A_B_C, manu schwendener and Chris B 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_B_C Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 That sounds like a great solution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu schwendener Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 > We hadn't really considered the case where a user would reenter the crop tool after cropping before I use that a lot: I make postcards from my photos and I always need several tries until I have found the crop that works best. But my intuitive workflow would be – select area (with preset proportions) – crop If I then want to adjust the crop, my impuls is cmd+z (= one step back = I see the whole photo again, including the rectangle I chose before, but with the parts outside the recangle visible again). Of course I can learn to use "click on the crop tool again" instead, and I'm looking forward to having that option. Just want to let you know that cmd+z would be the logical step for me to get there. manuschwendener.ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffinityQ Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I hope this comment is relevant, or "close enough..." It seems "non-destructive" gets in the way... When I crop, I would like to think I cropped the image. If I crop the cropped image, the uncropped portions from the "original" can reappear. I want to add a white border and the new "re-sampling" behavior is just the ticket which allows that, however, it also reveals portions of the original image which I had already "cropped out." Shouldn't the result of actions be the "intersection" of those actions, overlaying ALL of them rather than randomly nullifying previous actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fde101 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 10 hours ago, AffinityQ said: If I crop the cropped image, the uncropped portions from the "original" can reappear. This is a good thing as it provides additional flexibility in reframing if after looking at the results of the crop it is decided that the original crop was not what was desired. You can always adjust the crop in such a way that you continue to use a subset of what you had cropped to originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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