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GarryP

Is there a way to tell a single master page whether it is for a left- or right-hand page?

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Windows 10 Home 1809, Publisher 1.7.0.227.

I have a Facing spread with pages of dimension 5.8x7.9in with margins of 0.75in inner, 1.0in outer, 0.75in top, 0.8in bottom (see attached image).
This means that the outside (left) margin of the left-hand page equals that of the outside (right) margin of the right-hand page and both outer margins are larger than the two inner margins. That's all well and good.

However, when I come to create a left- or right-hand Single master page - sometimes I don't want one side of the spread to have what's on the related master page 'side' - I can't seem to find a way of telling Publisher that the master page is either left- or right-handed and always get the margins for a left-handed page.

Is there any way I can correctly set the margins for each left/right single master page without doing it manually? Or, is there a better way I should be doing this?

I have found that I can create a Facing master page and then apply that to each 'side' of a spread but that puts me in the position sometimes where, for pages that use both left- and right-hand sides of the master, I now have a duplicated master page, which looks a little confusing. I should really remove the existing 'side' of the master page and apply the whole facing master page but I might forget.

The attached AFPUB file shows both the left/right single page margin issue - master pages Left Single and Right Single - and the duplicated master page 'issue'. It also shows that the margins on the Right Single master are not visible on the pages that master has been applied to, even when you switch off the other master pages applied to the spread. Basically, I have too many margins - on the different masters - and don't know which will be applied (I think that might be a separate issue).

facing-pages.jpg

master-page-sides.afpub

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59 minutes ago, fde101 said:

The margins can be configured separately for each master.  Just go into Spread Setup and swap the numbers.

True, but Garry asked if it could be done other than manually :)

As far as I know, no.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta       / Affinity Designer 1.6..5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta    / Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.337 Beta

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10 minutes ago, fde101 said:

True... but the single master page isn't left or right.  It is just a page.

Until you give it asymmetrical margins, or an asymmetrical page number position :)


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta       / Affinity Designer 1.6..5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta    / Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.337 Beta

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I was hoping that there was a way of setting the chirality of a single master page without having to manually swap margin sizes around but it doesn't look like that's an option. I've been able to get what I want by using a facing master page/spread and then applying all of it to spreads where the full master is needed or only applying it to one half of the spread where I only need one half of the master and it looks fine, so far. Perhaps I'll find situations where it's more useful to do it this way. I will keep going like this unless I have problems or someone gives me a better way.

This then leads me to a related question which I've already briefly mentioned above: If I have multiple master pages applied to a page/spread (each with their own margins), which margins should I see - or be able to use - on the page/spread?
A little bit of experimenting shows that (as far as I can tell) the displayed margins - those that can be snapped to and, therefore, the only usable ones - are always those in the master page which is at the bottom of the layer stack, I.e. the layer that is 'farthest away' from the layers above it. If this is by intentional design then that's fine and I can live with that, but it needs to be documented so users know what's happening and why. I can imagine conditions under which it would be confusing - or create problems - but if it's how things should be then there's probably nothing we can do about it.

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I'm a bit confused what's your use case here is but remember that you can apply master pages to master pages and so you can achieve any permutation of master pages you want.

Once you've done that you can then use these as your base master pages for your work.

But like I said I'm not sure whether I follow you here. :)

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My use case, in this particular instance, is very basic: Applying page numbers to either (a) only the left-hand page, (b) only the right-hand page, or (c) both pages - where having no page numbers means simply not applying the master page at all. I can do what I want using the technique I mentioned above so I'll go along with that until/unless I find a problem.

P.S. You can't apply only one side of a master page spread to another master page spread so that could cause a problem in the future, but that's probably something for another time.

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1 hour ago, GarryP said:

You can't apply only one side of a master page spread to another master page spread

This is something I've been doing for a while now. But I'm curious why you think you can't do that and that this may cause problems in the future.

Did you read it somewhere in the existing documentation or is this just your hunch?

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It's not a hunch, I tried doing it a few times and couldn't get it to work.
Whenever I select a master spread I can only select the whole master spread - not a half/page of it - and I can only apply another whole master spread to that master spread. The "Apply Master" context menu item only gives me a small dialog allowing me to select the master without any reference to which part of it.
Are you sure you're applying one side of a master spread to another master spread or are you applying one half of a master spread to a page?
I can do the latter, it's the former I can't do.

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On 2/2/2019 at 5:38 PM, walt.farrell said:

Until you give it asymmetrical margins, or an asymmetrical page number position

Nope, still just a page.  The margins are on the master and the master doesn't have a page number of its own.  Margins are just guides so you can just as easily have a smaller inside margin so that a sidebar or callouts could occupy a larger outside margin.

Having a larger margin on the left might mean leaving room for the binding on a left hand page or leaving room for a sidebar on a right hand page.

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2 hours ago, GarryP said:

My use case, in this particular instance, is very basic: Applying page numbers to either (a) only the left-hand page, (b) only the right-hand page, or (c) both pages - where having no page numbers means simply not applying the master page at all. I can do what I want using the technique I mentioned above so I'll go along with that until/unless I find a problem.

Try reversing this.

Create a facing pages master with the page numbers on the relevant sides, and a single page master with no page numbers.

Apply the facing pages master in general, then drag the single page master to those pages that should not have the page numbers - it should replace the relevant side of the facing pages master thus removing the page numbers.

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4 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Nope, still just a page.  The margins are on the master and the master doesn't have a page number of its own.  Margins are just guides so you can just as easily have a smaller inside margin so that a sidebar or callouts could occupy a larger outside margin.

Having a larger margin on the left might mean leaving room for the binding on a left hand page or leaving room for a sidebar on a right hand page.

We'll either have to agree to disagree, or we're saying the same thing in different ways. What you said above is correct, except for "Nope, still just a page". :)

The assymetry means that the margins or other assymetrical content on the (single page) master make that master applicable only to appropriate single pages in the book. If the master is setup for a left page, and you apply it to a right page, the information or guides on the right page will be placed incorrectly.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1809, 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.6.5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta       / Affinity Designer 1.6..5.123 and 1.7.0.333 Beta    / Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.337 Beta

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12 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

The assymetry means that the margins or other assymetrical content on the (single page) master make that master applicable only to appropriate single pages in the book

Depending on the document, from the perspective of the user, that is true - however, from the perspective of Publisher itself (from a technical perspective) there is no distinction.

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5 hours ago, GarryP said:

Whenever I select a master spread I can only select the whole master spread - not a half/page of it - and I can only apply another whole master spread to that master spread.

That's correct but then when you drag that master page over another master page and move your page over to the left or right page that page will highlight to let you know what part of the master page (verso or recto page) you are about to modify.

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To me the master pages are somewhat confusing. And I don't get the logic behind it right now.

1) Document has 4 pages. Checked as facing pages.
2) Document has 3 master pages. 1 title, 1 inner page(2), 1 back.
3) Title master has inner margin 30 and outer margin 15 mm. In the preview of the pages title is right aligned. Everything on this master page is OK.
4) Back master has inner margin 30 and outer margin 15 mm. In the preview of the pages back is left aligned. Everything on this master page is OK.
5) I apply back master to page 4 and now margin left is 15 mm and margin right is 30 mm.

Not the behaviour I used to know. Margin should be there where I set them independently whether the content page is on the left or right side.

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fde101: That's a nice way of looking at the situation; I'll have to try it in future projects.

Seneca: Ah... dragging... that did the trick, thanks very much. Now I'm wondering why there's a difference applying masters to masters, but I don't really need to know the answer to that. Anyway, cheers.

Joachim_L: If I've read it correctly, what you're getting sounds right to me from what I've read above. With a spread, your fourth page will be on the left so the margin on the left of that page should be the outer margin of 15 and the margin on the right should be the inner margin of 30. The outer margin will always be on the left of a left-hand page and on the right of a right-hand page. You are not setting a left/right margin, you are setting an inner/outer margin, with the assumption that you are working on a spread and not individual pages. (I think this is part of the answer to my original question.)

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