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a bug in Export 72 dpi PDF?


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If I am interpreting this correctly, you are rendering a 72 DPI PDF file, causing raster images to be resampled at a lower resolution, then seeing pixelation as a result, probably either in print or when zoomed in on the display.

This does not sound like a bug, but rather should be expected.  72 DPI is too low a resolution for something particularly if it will be printed or viewed at > 100% zoom on a display.

300 DPI is basically the minimum that you want for a high-quality print.

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Hi, it is not for prints; that works. It is seen if made for WEB; look to the link, please; there only the last pics, p 86ff. lars

all Aff 2.2: Capture One+ 23 pro; MacBook Pro, OSX 10.15.7,  Fuji X-Pro2 

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You have control over the resampling that occurs, via the More... dialog on the Export dialog.

By default, with PDF (for print) the document uses 300dpi and the settings in More... say to resample any images that are > 450dpi.

With PDF (for web) the document uses 72dpi and the settings in More... say to resample any images that are > 108dpi.

I think, if you're including images that are being affected, you might need to adjust those More... settings to avoid resampling your images. That is, turn off that resampling.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
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Looks, like buggy to me, too. The horizontal wires should not show these interruptions, at none resolution.

686348818_Seitenauslarshennings.de-still-01-19_Seite_1_Bild_0001Kopie.jpg.6d4c8abed4c3c0c6abb0bb6ff8caf698.jpg


I think I've seen a similar occurrence when an application uses only the preview, which is stored alongside the overall data with an image file.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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It seems like all of the pictures in that document are a bit short on pixels; if I zoom to make the document nearly fit the width of my browser window in a non-particularly-high-resolution display I can see jaggies on nearly all of them.

 

18 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I think, if you're including images that are being affected, you might need to adjust those More... settings to avoid resampling your images. That is, turn off that resampling.

Yes, or increase the DPI setting of the document.  It should not impact vector objects.

 

15 minutes ago, thomaso said:

I think I've seen a similar occurrence when an application uses only the preview, which is stored alongside the overall data with an image file.

This is an interesting question.  Are the images linked, and if so, were the originals moved such that they show as being missing according to resource manager?

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Low res would appear blurry/unsharp. Not the steps are weird but the interruptions in larsh's pic.

Compare: Left: 1px lines in 72dpi  ----  Right: same pic downsampled to 24 dpi and shown in size of the left image (300%)

682202376_line1px24pdiat300percent.jpg.cc0e7082f70b26bad4b68548c0b0b5cc.jpg  1233028988_line1px72dpi.jpg.d019d27968e2b03a0e892fc267cd1876.jpg

 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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57 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

avoid resampling your images. That is, turn off that resampling.

What makes you think so? – Resampling (here: downsampling) was invented to increase quality by interpolation between merging pixels. But in the interruptions above we see a lack of pixels.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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Hi, thanks a lot – but it is to much for me.

Walt: 108 or 450 are set in the pre-settings.

The problem is, that there are PDF which worked in 72 dpi: http://www.larshennings.de/down/larshennings.de-detail.pdf . Done with APu a version before. It worked in printing too, a book is on my desk!

The book I make now, with APu 1.7.0.227, is the same empty form/ Vorlage as this one in the link above. What I do is as before: from Capture One 11 are made JPG: 300 dpi, 2550/ 1700 px and set to APu (the printed images are 21 x 14 cm). Before I did it, the JPG are OK in Vorschau/ View, then made to PDF in Vorschau, read again with it; fine. This JPG are read in OpenOffice too, fine. EDIT: And it is read by APh, fine.

Then this JPG are set to APu and export to PDF with 72 dpi as I did it many times before: you see the result above. Export with 300 dpi it is OK too. I did not change settings or whatever. 

That´s why I think there is a mistake in APu 1.7.0.227, or a new pre-setting. 

There is one thing more: If the JPG comes out from Cap. O. in 72 dpi, I can see the problem in Finder in the small button. In RAW files there is a little JPG included (that´s all I know about), is there a little JPG inside the JPG? And reeds the new APu this one?  

Regards, lars

all Aff 2.2: Capture One+ 23 pro; MacBook Pro, OSX 10.15.7,  Fuji X-Pro2 

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It would have helped to have known you had done this successfully with prior versions of Publisher, lars. That's important information for your report of a possible problem.

In that case I'm out of ideas. I will be interested in seeing how it's resolved.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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Hi, the print is done with 300 dpi; that works now and before.

The problem is the WEB-PDF, which makes – now and not before – the trouble as you see above in the blue house, where not only the horizontal wires are wrong as Tomaso shows. And I see now, he thinks too, there is a preview used.  

Is there nobody who can make a JPG to PDF?

So let us see what the friendly staff says. Best, lars

all Aff 2.2: Capture One+ 23 pro; MacBook Pro, OSX 10.15.7,  Fuji X-Pro2 

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Can you upload the Publisher document

Or at least copy 2 or 3 pages into a new  document with JPGs that shows the problem

To save time I am currently using an automated AI to reply to some posts on this forum. If any of "my" posts are wrong or appear to be total b*ll*cks they are the ones generated by the AI. If correct they were probably mine. I apologise for any mistakes made by my AI - I'm sure it will improve with time.

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THANKS TO ALL! Lanczos3 (sep). Says not to click to: for Web. 58 MB for the 300 dpi 90 pages is not to much! Bye.

By the way. Deleting pages so that left page becomes right the images not longer stay with the margins.

all Aff 2.2: Capture One+ 23 pro; MacBook Pro, OSX 10.15.7,  Fuji X-Pro2 

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1 hour ago, larsh said:

Says not to click to: for Web. 58 MB for the 300 dpi 90 pages is not to much! Bye.

Sorry, I don't understand this line. – Klappt's bei dir jetzt?

I don't get issues with your doc and jpg to export a 72 dpi pdf without your initial appearance:
larshennings.de-teil_downsampl-bicubic.pdf

 

1 hour ago, larsh said:

Deleting pages so that left page becomes right the images not longer stay with the margins. 

That's a pity but a normal behavior, especially without master pages like in your document. Imagine a layout with objects not touching a margin – how should the application know where you want to get that object placed if you make a left page to a right one: stay or move?

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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5 hours ago, larsh said:

Export with 300 dpi it is OK too. I did not change settings or whatever.  

That´s why I think there is a mistake in APu 1.7.0.227, or a new pre-setting. 

@larsh , your unwanted look results from a downsample setting either nearest "neighbour" or "bilinear". There is no sense to use those for final documents, instead choose bicubic at least. If you switch from a print preset to web than paramters in the "More" section become changed in the background. That's way you thought not to have changed setting.

@MEB , obviously the export preset "web" is linked to a) 72 dpi and b) bilinear downsampling by default.

That bilinear preselection is the bug or should get auto-set to bicubic at least, in my opinion.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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12 minutes ago, MEB said:

thomaso,
What settings/preset are you using to export the file? It's PDF (for web)?

Yes, "web" and its default 72 dpi - but with a change in "More" from its default "bilinear" to "bicubic". 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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4 hours ago, MEB said:

(you didn't specified you changed the resampler in your post)

It was humble hidden in the file name: "...downsampl-bicubic.pdf" ;)

4 hours ago, MEB said:

Still the bilinear resampling result seems too bad. Have to take a look at this. 

And, possibly, could you change the web-preset to bicubic?

Finally: It is not very clear nor helpful, that a change of the preset in the export options also results in a change of the "More" options. I'd expect - like lars did, too - that they are either independent or, at least, remain once I altered them.

Also, it would make things easier (less confusing) to b able to make all export settings in 1 window only, means to see the "More"-settings in the same window as the export options.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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6 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Finally: It is not very clear nor helpful, that a change of the preset in the export options also results in a change of the "More" options. I'd expect - like lars did, too - that they are either independent or, at least, remain once I altered them.

Selecting the preset basically does two things, from what I can see:

  1. Select the output format (PDF, PNG, JPEG, etc.) and
  2. Change those settings on "More..." to a good set of defaults (for many or most cases) as implied by the preset's name. Thus, it's critical that changing the preset changes the values on More. That's the purpose of the preset.

If you have a need for a specific set of settings you need to look at More and specify them there. Having done that, and found a set that works well for your usual cases, you can save them as your own preset, and then just choose that preset name the next time you need to do an export.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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Walt, I know how it works. I simply don't understand nor see a reason why it was designed like this. A preset can be selected at 2 places, you never can see both at 1 time. If it would be in 1 window only, a topic like this might have not happened ;)

Also I miss a "Cancel" button in "More" – and, much worse, I miss the "Cancel"-button in export options to work :(

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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