a few issues with .107

[robinp]

I have recently started using the Beta. I was finding the current release (non beta) version repeatedly crashed when opening some PDFs, I had also been finding the Lasso tool / marquee tool unwieldy. Anyway, on to the beta. I have found there are several issues currently and sorry if these have been reported previously.

1. Lasso - No way of using shift to lock angle when using the polygon lasso tool. Holding shift changed the tool to the magnet option temporarily. I've tried numerous other key combos but none seem to do it.
2. Flood select
   1. no way of using all layers to create selection
   2. I'm not sure what the tolerance setting is supposed to do but currently it appears to do nothing. I assumed it would be like the threshold setting in photoshop.
3. Flood fill / gradient tool are both currently very frustrating to use.
   1. Flood fill - Colour settings are lost each time you move to a different tool. This is bad if you have to adjust a selection for example
   2. Gradient tool - similar to above. However, it also reverts to defaults all of the tool settings. This means you can have a gradient set up just how you want it (colour, opacity, type etc) and then adjust a selection to go back and it has reverted to the defaults. I also find that sometimes when using this tool it changes the active layer, for example, click on the image to start a gradient and for some reason Photo changes the active layer. This is awful because it not only means you end up with the gradient on the wrong layer, you then have to correct it and set up all the settings for the gradient all over again.
   3. Generally, I would much rather have a different quick key for each of these tools.
   4. Generally, I want flood fill to be able to flood to a region that is composited from all visible layers (like photoshop). Having to create a manual selection with marquee / lasso is laborious.
4. Colour settings generally - Similar to above, colour settings seem to revert to defaults regularly
5. Layer thumbnails regularly show thumbnail for other layers
6. Image transformation - I would expect to be able to distort and image with the black arrow tool and holding down of modifier keys. For example, hold Alt and drag a corner control point to distort the image. The Perspective tool and mesh warp tools are powerful but not as flexible / quick as just manually adjusting things as I have described.
7. I think a better interface to indicate which adjustment layers are working with which layers would be helpful. Photoshop as the return arrow like symbol to show when an adjustment layer is automatically masked to a specific layer. I appreciate there is the whole layer hierarchy system but sometimes it just looks like a sea of layers and at a glance, identifying what adjust what can be trickier.
8. I had a long debate previously with @MEB about delete and whether it should delete layers. He pointed out that it is the same in Photoshop. I think the issue I have with the affinity apps is that often objects are in fact layers. I find accidentally selecting different layers happens far too often just by clicking on the canvas somewhere. In photoshop the typical behaviour is that the only way to change active layers is with the layer panel. With Photo I am finding that I often end up with a different layer active to the one I had originally selected. This is linked to the gradient fill issue described above, where you end up with a gradient added to the wrong layer. Maybe I am just using it wrong, but it doesn't seem as robust as it might.

Thanks, and happy to provide more detail on any of the above.

[fde101]

15 minutes ago, robinp said:

no way of using all layers to create selection

A work-around for this is to right-click on a layer and choose Merge Visible.

This adds an additional layer which represents a merged version of the visible layers, which could be used for the selection and then discarded.

Yes, it should be simpler to do than that, but in a pinch, at least it is something.

 

18 minutes ago, robinp said:

Generally, I would much rather have a different quick key for each of these tools.

You can customize these in Preferences -> Keyboard Shortcuts.  Select the Photo persona in the first drop-down list and Tools in the second to find them.

 

20 minutes ago, robinp said:

Generally, I want flood fill to be able to flood to a region that is composited from all visible layers (like photoshop). Having to create a manual selection with marquee / lasso is laborious.

Again a workaround, but use the method I listed above to create the selection, then select the layer you want the fill to be on and use Edit/Fill instead of the tool.

[robinp]

20 hours ago, fde101 said:

A work-around for this is to right-click on a layer and choose Merge Visible.

This adds an additional layer which represents a merged version of the visible layers, which could be used for the selection and then discarded.

Yes, it should be simpler to do than that, but in a pinch, at least it is something.

Thanks, that's helpful.

I must admit, I miss not having a 'merge selected layers' option. That's another to go on the list!

[Chris B]

On 1/31/2019 at 1:36 PM, robinp said:

I have recently started using the Beta. I was finding the current release (non beta) version repeatedly crashed when opening some PDFs, I had also been finding the Lasso tool / marquee tool unwieldy. Anyway, on to the beta. I have found there are several issues currently and sorry if these have been reported previously.

1. Lasso - No way of using shift to lock angle when using the polygon lasso tool. Holding shift changed the tool to the magnet option temporarily. I've tried numerous other key combos but none seem to do it. - This is true. If you look at the Info bar, Shift is reserved for magnetic edges. Perhaps another key could be used for angles
2. Flood select
   1. no way of using all layers to create selection - This is a logged feature request
   2. I'm not sure what the tolerance setting is supposed to do but currently it appears to do nothing. I assumed it would be like the threshold setting in photoshop. - This increases the strength of the highlight. Quick test—set the tolerance to 10 and left-click / Deselect / Now set it to 100 and left-click. You should notice more (maybe all) of the image is selected. You can also click+drag to dynamically change the tolerance.
3. Flood fill / gradient tool are both currently very frustrating to use.
   1. Flood fill - Colour settings are lost each time you move to a different tool. This is bad if you have to adjust a selection for example - I'm not seeing this.
   2. Gradient tool - similar to above. However, it also reverts to defaults all of the tool settings. This means you can have a gradient set up just how you want it (colour, opacity, type etc) and then adjust a selection to go back and it has reverted to the defaults. I also find that sometimes when using this tool it changes the active layer, for example, click on the image to start a gradient and for some reason Photo changes the active layer. This is awful because it not only means you end up with the gradient on the wrong layer, you then have to correct it and set up all the settings for the gradient all over again. - The Gradient Tool will remember the objects settings if you click that object. If no object is selected, the Gradient Tool will indeed revert to default
   3. Generally, I would much rather have a different quick key for each of these tools. - Please feel free to log this as a request
   4. Generally, I want flood fill to be able to flood to a region that is composited from all visible layers (like photoshop). Having to create a manual selection with marquee / lasso is laborious. - Already a feature request—and a good one IMO
4. Colour settings generally - Similar to above, colour settings seem to revert to defaults regularly - Please go into more detail. There are times when I'd want this but I can appreciate there are times when you might not want this. 
5. Layer thumbnails regularly show thumbnail for other layers - They can be slow to update but I've never seen it showing another layers preview. More info on how to reproduce, please.
6. Image transformation - I would expect to be able to distort and image with the black arrow tool and holding down of modifier keys. For example, hold Alt and drag a corner control point to distort the image. The Perspective tool and mesh warp tools are powerful but not as flexible / quick as just manually adjusting things as I have described. - Feature request
7. I think a better interface to indicate which adjustment layers are working with which layers would be helpful. Photoshop as the return arrow like symbol to show when an adjustment layer is automatically masked to a specific layer. I appreciate there is the whole layer hierarchy system but sometimes it just looks like a sea of layers and at a glance, identifying what adjust what can be trickier. - Feature request
8. I had a long debate previously with @MEB about delete and whether it should delete layers. He pointed out that it is the same in Photoshop. I think the issue I have with the affinity apps is that often objects are in fact layers. I find accidentally selecting different layers happens far too often just by clicking on the canvas somewhere. In photoshop the typical behaviour is that the only way to change active layers is with the layer panel. With Photo I am finding that I often end up with a different layer active to the one I had originally selected. This is linked to the gradient fill issue described above, where you end up with a gradient added to the wrong layer. Maybe I am just using it wrong, but it doesn't seem as robust as it might. This feels like a personal user-case scenario. I see what you are saying.

Thanks, and happy to provide more detail on any of the above.

Hey robinp, I've replied to your post in red. Anywhere I've asked for additional info and you'd like to expand on what you've raised should be made in a separate thread so it can be addressed without interruption.

Anything noted as a feature request should really be mentioned in the Feature Request forum so that it can be logged and archived. Specific improvement requests for the beta are fine here but if it applies to the release and is a request would be better suited where I've linked you. Thank you  
 

[robinp]

On 2/5/2019 at 11:54 AM, Chris B said:

Hey robinp, I've replied to your post in red. Anywhere I've asked for additional info and you'd like to expand on what you've raised should be made in a separate thread so it can be addressed without interruption.

Anything noted as a feature request should really be mentioned in the Feature Request forum so that it can be logged and archived. Specific improvement requests for the beta are fine here but if it applies to the release and is a request would be better suited where I've linked you. Thank you  
 

Thanks, when I find a bit of time I'll split things out as you've requested. Is it generally better to do single issue posts? I kind of got the impression (likely incorrectly) that being bombarded with loads of individual threads would be more annoying so I've been keeping not of issues and then doing them in a single hit rather than firing them out as they occur. Sorry if this was the wrong approach.

[fde101]

14 minutes ago, robinp said:

Is it generally better to do single issue posts? I kind of got the impression (likely incorrectly) that being bombarded with loads of individual threads would be more annoying so I've been keeping not of issues and then doing them in a single hit rather than firing them out as they occur. Sorry if this was the wrong approach.

You are only considering the first post.

If you put 12 things on one post and people want to discuss them you wind up with overlapping discussions that jump all over the place and become confusing to unravel.

Making separate posts for separate items means that people can discuss things in a way that keeps the relevant conversation for any one thing together in one place.

[robinp]

1 minute ago, fde101 said:

You are only considering the first post.

If you put 12 things on one post and people want to discuss them you wind up with overlapping discussions that jump all over the place and become confusing to unravel.

Making separate posts for separate items means that people can discuss things in a way that keeps the relevant conversation for any one thing together in one place.

I understand there are pros and cons. I suppose I found that often threads get ignored by staff and found a better level of engagement on more involved posts. 

[fde101]

1 minute ago, robinp said:

I found that often threads get ignored by staff

If you are looking at feature requests, they are not ignored so much as not responded to.

The Serif team has mentioned several times that the usually do not respond directly to feature requests for various reasons, even though they do read them.

[Chris B]

fde101 is absolutely correct.

Wading through a post with a ton of steps is generally easier for us, however as fde101 said, the thread can become unmanageable, especially when multiple people start chipping in. Things can get lost or go unresponded to. We certainly don't want to discourage users from posting big threads and we appreciate doing individual posts is more time consuming for you, but you will generally get a better response by doing separate posts.

I also agree about feature requests. Now that the developers are more focused on developing as opposed to replying on a forum, it's harder to get a 'yes' or a 'no' about an idea or improvement. It's hard for someone in Tech Support or QA to say if a feature is good enough or will be implemented into the software as it simply isn't up to us.

Many people joke about the Feature Request forum is a place for ideas to go to die but it just isn't true. Everything gets archived read and it's a great place for the developers to go and read through ideas without having to answer other questions.