Behavior in new feature of masterpages a bug or not ?

[Tom Schülke]

Hi ,

I just downloaded the newest Beta,  1.70. 227

The realy great News for me is:        Yeah... you can position your  Textframes in the masterpages, and put the Text in the Paages !!!  so you make your textframes layout inside the masterpages as expected, but the text now flexible in the Pages, this way you do no more need to position all Textframes manualy on each new page and can use masterpages for this..

But.. there are still some things i dont expect this way, and i am unsure if its a bug or not..    so please have a look at the screenshot and the explanations on it..

• i created some masterpages as test.
• i positioned 2 Textframes in the master and linked them
• looked at the pages, and the setup was reflected fine on the pages, i had the masterpages aplied to..
• filled in filler text in the pages      WHICH WORKED FINE   ........    YEAH GREAT STEP Forward .... 
• came back to my masterpage, inserted a new Textframe in between the two allready existing ones, and linked the Textframe from left side to the secound new Textframe.. worked fine..
• came back to usual pages,     but now,   the new link didnt apear here on the new pages...     this seems to be wired.. it alway should reflect the changes on the masterpages.
• I also had to connect the last Textframes on my double sides, manualy to the first textframe on the following doublepage which has the same master aplied..  I am not sure if theres a way, and if it would be and advantage, if this would happen automatically.

[Michail]

2 hours ago, Tom Schülke said:

But.. there are still some things i dont expect this way, and i am unsure if its a bug or not..    so please have a look at the screenshot and the explanations on it..

• i created some masterpages as test.
• i positioned 2 Textframes in the master and linked them
• looked at the pages, and the setup was reflected fine on the pages, i had the masterpages aplied to..
• filled in filler text in the pages      WHICH WORKED FINE   ........    YEAH GREAT STEP Forward .... 
• came back to my masterpage, inserted a new Textframe in between the two allready existing ones, and linked the Textframe from left side to the secound new Textframe.. worked fine..
• came back to usual pages,     but now,   the new link didnt apear here on the new pages...     this seems to be wired.. it alway should reflect the changes on the masterpages.
• I also had to connect the last Textframes on my double sides, manualy to the first textframe on the following doublepage which has the same master aplied..  I am not sure if theres a way, and if it would be and advantage, if this would happen automatically.

I hope I understood you correctly:
The re-routing of the text flow seems to work as desired. The text flows on the normal page in the changed direction, and the flow direction is displayed correctly.

Have you ever tried a new document? There may be difficulties with a document created with an older version.

[Tom Schülke]

Hi Michael,

I am at the moment not sure if you understood me right...   Well,  yes, the re-routing of the text flow on  The Masterpages works well.. 
But when i then switch to the normal pages, that i had this masterpage aplied to, there the rerouted textflow doesnt apear..  For me this looks like a bug..

the secound thing i was thinking about is, that it would be somehow right, that textframes between similar masterpages should be linked automatically..  looks logical for me..

 

[Michail]

19 hours ago, Tom Schülke said:

I am at the moment not sure if you understood me right...   Well,  yes, the re-routing of the text flow on  The Masterpages works well.. 
But when i then switch to the normal pages, that i had this masterpage aplied to, there the rerouted textflow doesnt apear..  For me this looks like a bug..

the secound thing i was thinking about is, that it would be somehow right, that textframes between similar masterpages should be linked automatically..  looks logical for me..

Okay, that's how I figured it. That works for me as expected. Have you ever tried it with a newly created document? Just to exclude this case.

To the second thing: I don't know if this is such a good idea. Maybe this will help you with your special publications. But not everyone wants to link all successive text frames. For example, you often skip an existing frame or a whole page before the text is continued. This would always mean reworking. Actually, such an automatism would be more suitable for belletristic. But writers are more likely to write in Word or specialized authoring software.

[Michail]

S u p p l e m e n t :
Perhaps a special option could be implemented for a continuous concatenation when creating the document. There is such a thing in InDesign. This option is called "Primary Text Frame". However, I don't remember ever using this option.

[Wosven]

Even in ID, if you don't link some text frame, it won't be automagically, and it's fine, since those can be for specific texts, not the main flow of the main linked text frames.

If text frames are linked, it's working ok in APub, but adding pages is possible only if begining by the left page for me.

I don't know why, but it was easier to flow and add pages from a left page than a right one.

[Michail]

1 hour ago, Wosven said:

Even in ID, if you don't link some text frame, it won't be automagically, and it's fine, since those can be for specific texts, not the main flow of the main linked text frames.

 

[Wosven]

It's a option when creating a document, but you can add it/turn off on text frames in your Master pages later too.

[Wosven]

In pictures:

You can add more text frames and link them to the flow or not:
(you need to delete all but 1 page and they'll be created again with the new flow and frames).

On the second example, I added a second frame on the right page to the flow

[Michail]

27 minutes ago, Wosven said:

It's a option when creating a document, but you can add it/turn off on text frames in your Master pages later too.

You said in your post that it wasn't possible in ID. That's why I posted the screenshot.

As far as I know, it is not possible to create "primary text frames" later.

[Wosven]

8 minutes ago, Michail said:

You said in your last post that it wasn't possible in ID

Not what I said:

1 hour ago, Wosven said:

Even in ID, if you don't link some text frame, it won't be automagically

You need to check an option or to link some frames, but you can't create some frames on a master page and expect them to be linked.
If you add some text frames on a master page after selecting the option, they won't be in the flow, unless you link one of the "flow text frames" to them, or add them after clicking on the bottom right arrow of one of the in the flow linked text frames.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Wosven
Added "in the flow" for precision

[Michail]

I'll sum it up one more time:
I think @Tom Schülke wants a solution in APub that automatically generates text frames in a document that are located on a master page and are all linked together. Without any manual work. There is an option in InDesign that does this when you create a new document (and only when you create it).

In addition, it might be better to post this topic in the forum discussion and suggestions. Then we might find out if such a feature is of wider interest.

[Wosven]

For now, Serif should work to implement this more in the way ID does it, with an option of text frames on the Master Pages. The same option permit to add automatically pages in you document, without needing to go to the end of your pages.

 

2 hours ago, Michail said:

There is an option in InDesign that does this when you create a new document (and only when you create it).

And for your information, you can link and flow text frames in ID in any documents, and not only when creating one, as said before, showing how in a previous post.

 

[Tom Schülke]

Well very nice,
That my thoughts produce such a Thread where everyone spends some thoughts about the best way to make publisher better in this area..

To create automacially following and linked Textframes maybe realy doesnt produce less work.  Ass already said, this could be cumbersome if you dont have a long text, so this as an option would be nice..

But my first post rather was about the behaviour, when in insert a new Textframe on the masterpage, that i link in there..    and this should for sure be reflected in the dependend pages i think.

 

[Wosven]

For "huge" modifications, and adding a third linked text frame on a Master Page is a lot of modifications when pages are already created and linked — you couldn't have this with the option in ID document's creation panel — you need to delete and create again the linked pages.

But APub really behave when modifying frames on those pages, we can hope they just forget about this link in the possible modifications and it'll be added in the next version!

[dominik]

On 1/26/2019 at 10:22 PM, Tom Schülke said:

But my first post rather was about the behaviour, when in insert a new Textframe on the masterpage, that i link in there..    and this should for sure be reflected in the dependend pages i think.

Hi @Tom Schülke,

I've been thinking about your question 'bug or not' for a while and I believe it is rather not a bug but more likely a feature that is not there. For several reasons:

1. The 'Edit content independently from Master Pages' is rather new. Maybe some features are not implemented yet.
2. It is very hard for APub to tell if you want newly created text frames be part of the text flow. At least without some more information.

Some examples:

If you are laying out a newspaper and want to insert an advertisement above the text flow frame it is even mandatory that the advert text frame is not part of the text flow.

If you want text that is part of the text flow that is above the frame, then why not keep the text in the same frame without adding another one 
If you want to insert an image you already can use text wrap.

Here's an idea:
Let have text frames an additional parameter that I call 'Text Flow #' (= Text Flow Number). Every text frame that shares the same 'Text Flow #' is part of this particular flow. Across multiple pages or even continued several pages further down the document. (Like a story in a newspaper starting on page one and is continued on page four).

This way one could have multiple text flows within one page and within one document and independent text frames, too.
This is similar to InDesigns 'master text flow' just that one can have many of them.

What do you think?

d.

[Gabe]

Hi all,

Sorry for the delayed reply. 

I have moved this to suggestions as it's definitely not a bug. Having a text frame on a master page does not "magically" link it to the next page. 

Thanks,

Gabe.