Affinity Designer: trim canvas

[beatrixwillius]

Hi,

Affinity Designer newbie here - trying to migrate from an old version of Adobe Fireworks to Affinity Designer.

I mostly change icons for my applications. I've got an SVG file which has borders. How do I get rid of those without manually resizing the icon? In Fireworks there was a menuitem to trim the canvas. What is the equivalent in Affinity Designer?

Regards

 

Beatrix Willius

[Gabe]

Hi @beatrixwillius,

Welcome to the forums. 

The easiest way would be to use the artboard tool to "crop" it to the right dimensions. You can either Drag on the canvas to set the dimensions or select the elements you want in the artboard, choose "Selection" in the top left corner and press Insert. 

Thanks,

Gabe. 

[beatrixwillius]

Hi Gabe,

no, this is not what I want. I want to make the existing vector as large as the canvas without fiddling around. The shadow needs to go, I need to fix the colors, trim the icon to the canvas size. Then I can export 32-x32 and 64x64 icons.

Regards

Beatrix Willius

[toltec]

1 hour ago, beatrixwillius said:

Hi Gabe,

no, this is not what I want. I want to make the existing vector as large as the canvas without fiddling around. The shadow needs to go, I need to fix the colors, trim the icon to the canvas size. Then I can export 32-x32 and 64x64 icons.

Regards

Beatrix Willius

The problem is, Designer does not have a canvas, it is based on a page (like Word or something). You would not normally design something in Word and then resize the page to fit the design. It is back to front for what you want. Photo on the other hand, is based on a canvas, so you can crop the canvas to the design and it would actually be more suitable for your purposes.

With all page based programs, you have to set the page size first, then place things on it, not the other way around and that does make a difference to the way you need to work.

If you want to use Designer for this, you will have to find a workaround. That really means using Artboards or perhaps export the images using slices.

Sorry 

 

[R C-R]

11 hours ago, toltec said:

The problem is, Designer does not have a canvas, it is based on a page (like Word or something).

That is incorrect & misleading. Affinity Designer is based on the canvas metaphor. Even Artboards are in effect just multiple canvases in one document. If you doubt this, refer to the online version of the built-in help & enter "canvas" as a search term, or just think about the Clip to Canvas  or Rotate canvas menu items, or where it says, "Document—to add an artboard at the current document's dimensions to the canvas."

[toltec]

2 hours ago, R C-R said:

That is incorrect & misleading. Affinity Designer is based on the canvas metaphor. Even Artboards are in effect just multiple canvases in one document. If you doubt this, refer to the online version of the built-in help & enter "canvas" as a search term, or just think about the Clip to Canvas  or Rotate canvas menu items, or where it says, "Document—to add an artboard at the current document's dimensions to the canvas."

I have to respectfully but completely disagree with you on that. Designer is NOT based on a Canvas !!! 

I appreciate that both programs sometimes confusingly refer to Page or Canvas but the correct (historically) and least confusing term for Designer type pages is Pages.

EDIT. I have just read my official Adobe published Illustrator CS5 book and I quote "Artboards represent the regions that can contain printable artwork, similar to pages in InDesign". Note the use of the word "pages" not "canvas"

You can't resize a canvas in Designer ? The OP was confused because they wanted to resize the "canvas" to an object, which is not possible.

 

Photo does refer to  resizing Canvas, which you can resize to an object (a common term).

We have always referred to an image in a Photoshop type program as being on a canvas, a mixture of pictures and artwork on an Illustrator type program with bleed and crop marks as being on a Page. Photoshop is definitely based on a Canvas and Adobe Illustrator pages are  based on pages or maybe Artboards ? And if you think of canvases in Designer, how would you translate them into multi-page PDF documents 

Of course, there is some overlap with the two programs but your argument will only confuse people even more.

BTW. How will I set up a 6 canvas tri-fold document in Publisher or Designer. And is the canvas on the middle called "Canvas 3" or "Canvas 4"?  And of course, what about the canvasination?

So what would you call them to avoid confusing new users and why is your name better than Adobe's name ?

[Ulysses]

Regardless of the differences in viewpoint on this, I’m glad to see this conversation taking place. My needs for Designer are usually  extremely simple (most of my tasks could be cared for in Photo alone, but sometimes I want the benefits of vector-drawn graphics and fonts). Often there are new concepts than what I’m accustomed to in a pixel editor such as Affinity Photo and Photoshop. The way Designer handles the Canvas vs the Document is one of them. And then controlling them between the desktop version and the iPad version is somewhat different as far as the interface goes. 

So please keep up the discussion! It helps everyone.  

[toltec]

14 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Regardless of the differences in viewpoint on this, I’m glad to see this conversation taking place. My needs for Designer are usually  extremely simple (most of my tasks could be cared for in Photo alone, but sometimes I want the benefits of vector-drawn graphics and fonts). Often there are new concepts than what I’m accustomed to in a pixel editor such as Affinity Photo and Photoshop. The way Designer handles the Canvas vs the Document is one of them. And then controlling them between the desktop version and the iPad version is somewhat different as far as the interface goes. 

So please keep up the discussion! It helps everyone.  

I have just read my official Adobe published, Illustrator CS5 book and I quote "Artboards represent the regions that can contain printable artwork, similar to pages in InDesign". Note the use of the word "pages" not "canvas".

That the way I have been thinking of them for the last 30 years and I think that is the only sensible way.

And Adobe agree (Adobe who ? )

[beatrixwillius]

Thanks for this very interesting discussion.

I was able to solve my problem by manually resizing the objects. Then I did a resize.

Nevertheless, a "clip canvas" would be helpful. I'll make a feature request. Is there an official way to do such a feature request or should I contact support?

Regards

Beatrix Willius

[toltec]

18 minutes ago, beatrixwillius said:

Is there an official way to do such a feature request or should I contact support?

There is an official forum 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/forum/53-suggestions-for-affinity-designer-on-desktop/

[R C-R]

4 hours ago, toltec said:

I have just read my official Adobe published, Illustrator CS5 book and I quote "Artboards represent the regions that can contain printable artwork, similar to pages in InDesign". Note the use of the word "pages" not "canvas".

Note also the use of "similar to." So Adobe also makes a distinction between the two -- otherwise there would be no need to include the word "similar," which means "looking or being almost the same, although not exactly."

So you could say that Affinity's artboards are similar to pages, which would not be misleading, but anything more that would be. Consider for example that in a single Affinity document artboards can be different sizes or even different shapes, that they can be nested inside other artboards, or that artboards can be given individual user created names, just like other objects in the Layers panel. Artboards also can be used with Affinity's snapping options, including snapping one artboard to the edge of another artboard or to the same vertical or horizontal position as other artboards.

Artboards can be converted to regular objects, or objects to artboards. In fact, as the built-in help says:

Quote

If an object has been converted to an artboard, that artboard remains editable as if it was the original object. For example, an artboard converted from a closed shape can still be edited as a closed shape and an artboard converted from artistic text can still be edited as text.

I am not sure what use there would be for an artboard shaped like text, but I have created diamond shaped artboards for mockups of labels (like McIlhenny's Tabasco sauce label) & other non-rectangular shaped ones for other label mockups (for some whimsical beer & wine bottle labels to amuse my friends).

The bottom line is artboards are not pages, just similar to them in some respects but not in others.

[R C-R]

5 hours ago, beatrixwillius said:

Nevertheless, a "clip canvas" would be helpful.

FWIW, there is a "Clip to Canvas" feature in Affinity Designer (& in Affinity Photo). In Designer, it is the last item in the View > View Mode menu. But it is always enabled & greyed out if the document contains one or more artboard because objects in artboards are always clipped to the dimensions of the artboard & "Clip to Canvas" is applied globally to everything in the document, including to objects dragged completely off an artboard or created outside any artboard.

[toltec]

Ah, but you said 

9 hours ago, R C-R said:

Affinity Designer is based on the canvas metaphor.

When it is clearly not based on the canvas metaphor. Neither Adobe Illustrator nor Affinity Designer are.

I am not sure why you are talking about Artboards? I would point out that neither the original posts by the OP or by me were talking of Artboards. We were both talking about using a "standard" Affinity Designer page. The only mention of Artboards was using them as a solution to the OP's  "Trim" question.

Tens of millions of Adobe Illustrator users have been referring to pages as pages since March 1987 (I think) and adopted Artboards as "like pages" when they came along.

You can call them flamingos if you want, but it will only cause confusion to the millions of Adobe Illustrator users who listen to you. I'm sure they all do 

[R C-R]

4 minutes ago, toltec said:

I am not sure why you are talking about Artboards?

Because artboards behave like individual canvases contained in a single Affinity document. Because artboards are indeed "like pages" but are not the same thing, nor is a canvas the same thing as a page. Because "similar to" or "like" does not mean the same thing as "the same as," not in Adobe or Affinity. Because a web 'page' is not the same thing as a paper 'page' or a leaf of a printed publication, nor is an Affinity 'page' that contains artboards the same thing as one that does not.

Basically, because when different things are not identical in all respects, it can cause considerable confusion if users expect them to behave in exactly the same way or have exactly the same properties.

[toltec]

2 hours ago, R C-R said:

Basically, because when different things are not identical in all respects, it can cause considerable confusion if users expect them to behave in exactly the same way or have exactly the same properties.

I think you have to give people a bit more credit, just as long as you don't mislead or confuse them. Would you describe a Corvette to a visitor from Mongolia as 'like a sedan' or as a 'family car' (small family of two)? Most people would still call it a car and park it in a 'car' park and if not misled, they would soon work out the rest if you just described it as a car. i.e "how many seats ?"

In common Adobe speak ...

A single sided Indesign or Publisher document is a 'Page'

An single side Photoshop or Photo document is a 'Canvas'

A sided Illustrator or Designer document is a 'Page'

A single sided Illustrator or Designer Artboard is 'Like a Page' 

I do agree that Artboards confuse things slightly because although they are described as 'Like a Page' they behave somewhat 'like a canvas'

If you want to know whether the page can be resized later (pages, like Quark, InDesign or Word pages are very hard to resize) look in the help files, or ask. That's what I would do unless someone confused me by saying a Designer page is a canvas and I expected it to work like a Photoshop canvas. There are a lot or former Adobe users out there.

[R C-R]

6 minutes ago, toltec said:

A single sided Illustrator or Designer Artboard is 'Like a Page' 

FWIW, the Affinity Designer Artboards help page includes a partial list of ways artboards can be used:

• Two artboards of equal size might represent two sides of a page.
• Several artboards of varying sizes could be used to create a branding concept including a company logo, letterheaded paper, compliment slip, envelope, business card and brochure.
• Various sized artboards might be placed together for an advertising campaign which includes a billboard poster, full- and half-page ads, flyers, as well as web banners and rich-graphic emails.
• Numerous artboards of equal size showing different screen displays of a mobile app.
• Two equal sized artboards could be used to design the back and front of a book cover, with a third, changeable width artboard in the middle to accommodate the spine.
• Numerous artboards of equal size could be created to allow for the design of a pack of cards.
• Progressive mock-up artboards might be placed together leading to the final, signed off design artboard.
• Several artboards displaying color variants of an identical design.
• Various sized artboards arranged logically to form the basis of a concept sheet for character design.

So yes, while it clearly makes perfect sense to consider some of those uses as very much 'like a (printed) page,' just as clearly it does not make sense to do so for all of them.

Artboards are simply designated areas of any shape or size, all contained in one document, that can be used for a multitude of different purposes. People usually can figure that out for themselves easily enough, but it does not help to insist that they all should be considered as 'like a page' or that referring to the content of a document as its "canvas" will somehow confuse them, whether or not that content includes artboards.

[toltec]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

but it does not help to insist that they all should be considered as 'like a page' 

Not my words but if Adobe and many millions of Adobe Illustrators users do, who am I to argue ?

If I designed a Facebook banner, a T-shirt, a poster or a business card I would not describe them as pages either but I would still use the Page Preset and Page Width / Height options.

I'm not proud 

[v_kyr]

LOL - When in doubt just look at it more from a devs perspective then ...

Quote

 

public class Canvas
extends Component
implements Accessible

A Canvas component represents a blank rectangular area of the screen onto which the application can draw or from which the application can trap input events from the user.

 

 

... or a Canvas in .Net ...

 

Quote

 

Canvas Class

Definition

Namespace:

System.Windows.Controls

Assembly:

PresentationFramework.dll

Defines an area within which you can explicitly position child elements by using coordinates that are relative to the Canvas area.

 

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, toltec said:

Not my words but if Adobe and many millions of Adobe Illustrators users do, who am I to argue ?

Who are you? You're an Affinity user, and the terms that Adobe uses are not necessarily the same terms Affinity uses, and even when they use the same words the objects described may be different in how they operate and how you use them.

Is Affinity fully consistent in it's terminology? No. 

However, when you have a project that does not include an artboard it does have a canvas. Otherwise Clip to Canvas would not exist and would not operate as it does. The fact that you might create it using a "Page Preset" is not really relevant to whether that canvas exists or not.

[R C-R]

4 hours ago, toltec said:

If I designed a Facebook banner, a T-shirt, a poster or a business card I would not describe them as pages either but I would still use the Page Preset and Page Width / Height options.

Why would you use a Page preset for Facebook content or for anything else designed for the web? What about creating device screen mockups, graphic emails, Designer Assets, bitmap exports for fills or brushes, or pretty much any other kind of project not intended for printed output?

Maybe more to the point, if you would not describe banners, posters, business cards, etc. as pages, why do you keep telling people that Designer is based on pages & does not have a canvas? Can you not see how that could confuse users, particularly those new to the Affinity products?

[toltec]

43 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Why would you use a Page preset for Facebook content or for anything else designed for the web? What about creating device screen mockups, graphic emails, Designer Assets, bitmap exports for fills or brushes, or pretty much any other kind of project not intended for printed output?

Maybe more to the point, if you would not describe banners, posters, business cards, etc. as pages, why do you keep telling people that Designer is based on pages & does not have a canvas? Can you not see how that could confuse users, particularly those new to the Affinity products?

You have totally twisted (or totally misunderstood). I have been trying very hard to make this simple for new uses (or ex Adobe users) to understand the difference between a Designer, page based document and a Photo, canvas based document because that affects the ability to layout (bleeds etc) and "Trim" the page. Affinity Designer users should bear the difference in mind before starting work and decide whether to create a standard page or an artboard. Ideally!

How are your arguments in any way helping them ?

 

Getting back to basics, are you still saying Affinity Designer is based on the canvas metaphor ? Your first argument

20 hours ago, R C-R said:

That is incorrect & misleading. Affinity Designer is based on the canvas metaphor. 

or could the Adobe description be more accurate (or at least, far more common} ?

18 hours ago, toltec said:

"Artboards represent the regions that can contain printable artwork, similar to pages in InDesign". 

A simple yes or no would be appreciated.

[R C-R]

10 minutes ago, toltec said:

I have been trying very hard to make this simple for new uses (or ex Adobe users) to understand the difference between a Designer, page based document and a Photo, canvas based document because that affects the ability to layout (bleeds etc) and "Trim" the page.

Why would anybody care about bleeds, etc. if their project does not involve printing anything? 

 

27 minutes ago, toltec said:

or could the Adobe description be more accurate (or at least, far more common} ?

19 hours ago, toltec said:

"Artboards represent the regions that can contain printable artwork, similar to pages in InDesign". 

I think the Affinity version is more accurate (or at least less likely to cause confusion) because it does not suggest that artboards are only for printable artwork:

Quote

Artboards are discrete design areas, of any shape and size, within the same document, on which you can place design elements.

I know of no simpler, easier to understand description than that. None of these apps are used or usable only for document printing. This is something every user should be aware of, even if they have only used them for that. For Photo & Designer, they also should be aware that either app can open native format documents created by the other without the need for any conversion or causing any data loss, something Adobe cannot claim for its similar products.

I understand you want to keep things simple, but it does not help anybody to oversimplify things so much that users might assume that they are only intended or useful for print oriented work. They are quite useful for much more than that.

[lepr]

.

 

[toltec]

50 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Why would anybody care about bleeds, etc. if their project does not involve printing anything? 

 

I think the Affinity version is more accurate (or at least less likely to cause confusion) because it does not suggest that artboards are only for printable artwork:

I know of no simpler, easier to understand description than that. None of these apps are used or usable only for document printing. This is something every user should be aware of, even if they have only used them for that. For Photo & Designer, they also should be aware that either app can open native format documents created by the other without the need for any conversion or causing any data loss, something Adobe cannot claim for its similar products.

I understand you want to keep things simple, but it does not help anybody to oversimplify things so much that users might assume that they are only intended or useful for print oriented work. They are quite useful for much more than that.

I think the problem is, that you and I interpret the word 'page' differently.

OK, I have a project that requires me to be able to describe the differences of each (or identify each) with a single word.

'Canvas', is well used for Photo and Photoshop to describe the area upon which an image is placed on, or cropped to. That is so well established it would be stupid to try and change it.

'Page', is well used to describe a Publisher or InDesign area, organised into pages. A page in other words.

Artboard describes a Designer or Illustrator area, which is sort of half page/half canvas.

 

"XXX" a one word description for a standard Designer area that would help new users. You can't call it a canvas because it has very different properties to a Photo/Photoshop type canvas  (in particular the lack of a trim option) and we need to distinguish the two. It is obviously not an Artboard unless we make it so

I know that Adobe (Illustrator) used to describe this entity as a page, but you don't like that. So what single word would you use to describe it ?

 

I will admit I am a bit biased towards 'pages' because I have been creating pages for 30+ years. Even now, although they are mostly web pages, they are still pages. I am open to sensible options though.

[R C-R]

8 hours ago, toltec said:

OK, I have a project that requires me to be able to describe the differences of each (or identify each) with a single word.

Why in the world would you or anybody else need to do that? Besides, it isn't as if "canvas" or "page" could do that. Both words are too ambiguous, too subject to different interpretations to do more than hint that there could be some differences. You still have to describe what they might be, & consider that projects might have more than one purpose.

8 hours ago, toltec said:

'Page', is well used to describe a Publisher or InDesign area, organised into pages. A page in other words.

What does that have to do with Affinity Designer? It isn't a layout app, & without artboards (those things you describe as "sort of half page/half canvas") you can't organize an AD document into anything similar to pages.

9 hours ago, toltec said:

I will admit I am a bit biased towards 'pages' because I have been creating pages for 30+ years. Even now, although they are mostly web pages, they are still pages. I am open to sensible options though.

I believe the only sensible thing to do is to forget about the page/canvas distinction & focus instead on the kinds of projects each app is well suited for. Affinity apps are not Adobe apps. They do not use the same terminology nor do they have identical capabilities, feature sets, or user interfaces. We can't change that.

Time to move on.