Page setup and Printing options

[johnri99]

Hi, love the software but have had some problems being able to print a photo at a specific size.  I had two problems.  First there seems no way to set a printer paper - in my example I could not select a 4x6 page on the printer menu.  In the end I exported the image, read it into Apature and printed it from there.

 

Another thing I wanted to do was create a document of a certain size by adding empty canvas around an existing image.  When I did this using resize canvas the canvas side was changed but the image was stretched to become the same size as the new canvas, which was not what I wanted.

 

Both problems are probably due to my incompetence, but some clarification would be helpful

 

Thanks

 

John

[Alan9940]

Hi John,

 

Nope, not any fault on your part! The printing capability in AP is severely lacking and has been brought up several times on this board. However, the developers don't seem concerned so I doubt that anything will change; which is truly too bad.

 

I played around with resize canvas, once, and immediately concluded that its functionality didn't seem logical nor did it work anything like in PS. Since I don't have much need for changing my canvas size, I didn't pursue it any further.

 

Best regards,

AlanH

[MEB]

@johnri99

Welcome to Affinity Forums :) 

No, it's not your fault. Affinity Photo wasn't released yet. It's still in development (Beta) and as such some features are still missing, incomplete or simply not working as expected yet. It's also subject to changes on its tools/behaviours from one beta to the next so don't be surprised if something works differently (hopefully better) than in previous betas.

 

Regarding the resize canvas problem, you're right. It's still not working as it should and in some situations it's stretching or showing previous data (if the image was cropped) which it shouldn't do. Thanks for raising this. I will get it logged to be looked at.

 

@Alan9940

We do care. But we can't address everything at once. There's some other issues/bugs to be solved that may be more relevant at this point.

[billtils]

John, the current situation is that printer management is determined by your printer and the Mac's default print dialogue.   When you click print in AP the first time, it will take you to a small popup window that shows your printer, presets, copies and pages, and proof of the to-be-printed image.  If you click on "Show details" down at the foot of the window it will open a more extensive dialogue screen that has more options, including some still hidden in a drop down window roughly at the centre, which will show you all your printer default options.

 

It's not as good as in the Aperture print dialogue, but it is useable until the printer UI makes it to the top of the Affinity to-do list.  

 

PS:  If the above is dealing with things with which you are familiar - sorry for stating the obvious, but as the saying goes, "we don't know what we don't know", and I don't know what you know about the Apple print interface!

[NPAssoc]

I would like to be able to place an image on the page as well as be able to do a "Page setup" and select from the page sizes for the particular printer I want to use. Like from this screen shot from my 2003 copy of PhotoShop.

 

[Alan9940]

@MEB

 

OK, perhaps "don't seem concerned..." was a poor choice of words. That said, though, I install and play around with each and every new beta as released, and it seems that minor enhancements and other fixes are completed while major things like the AP printing interface continue along unchanged. Serif staff has already stated previously on this issue that "You simply present the OS with something to print...What's wrong with that...The Designer folks complained about this, too, but they got used to it."

 

IMO, if AP doesn't address the entire printing interface before final release (making it more like every other image editor out there) you will lose many potential customers. I cannot imagine a single digital photographer that wouldn't complain if the printing interface remains as is.

 

Thank you for allowing me to express my 2 cents worth...

 

Best regards,

AlanH

[billtils]

Agree completely with Alan, but I'm taking what Miguel and the others in Affinity say about the print UI on trust (at least for now).  On the one hand, it is a photo app and it is still in beta and therefore right to focus on the "photo" parts, but on the other hand, like Alan says, it's hard to imagine a single digital photographer that won't complain if the printing UI remains as is.   Yes, the designers and others whose delivery medium is web-based won't mind, but there will be a truck load of willing Aperture and Adobe potential customers lost.

 

Maybe you could give us a more convincing "we are going to do it" response along with the next version release?

[billtils]

@MEB

 

Alan's post above contains this:  "The Designer folks complained about this, too, but they got used to it."   Perhaps the first 3 words there are the key ones.   This Serif app is titled "Affinity Photo", not Affinity Paint or Affinity Animation or Affinity Draw.  A print UI such as those found in Lightroom or Aperture is of little impact for the folks who are using it as a digital image editor for those purposes.  But guess what - photographers have this strange habit of wanting to print their images ...  Now, I'm not having a dig at the painters/animators/drawers, AP is relevant to their work, but if Serif is serious about presenting it as an app for photographers, they need to be serious about the print UI, and move the responses up the pecking order - by quite a lot.  We are not going to "get used to it"; if it continues to be in the "less important" category for much longer, we'll quit.  With deep regrets for what could have been, but ...

[Data_Shrine]

+1

Definitely agreed.

A serious printing interface is a must.

But maybe it already is on the roadmap ?

 

And not just for AF Designer, but AF Photo also needs it. And of course for Publisher too.  :)

[Andy Somerfield]

Hello guys,

 

Thank for taking the time to provide your feedback - we're aware of the lack of sophisticated printing UI in the current version of Photo. As Miguel has already said, we are in the midst of a long beta period at the moment - hundreds of issues are being considered for implementation at any one time, tens of issues being implemented as we speak.

 

I don't think that we ever said "the Designer users just got used to it" though.. We said that, often, Designer users could find all the options they required by burrowing a little deeper into the standard OS X print dialogs - as billtils has already pointed out..

 

That said, it is apparent that certain printing options are not available through that interface, and it is apparent that those options are required.

 

Be assured that those options will be made available - before the initial public launch of Photo.

 

From our perspective, implementation is easier if we are provided a list of requirements - I don't expect you to do our job for us, but if we could work together in this thread to ascertain a set of capabilities for a proposed new Print dialog (focussed on the printing of photographs) - that would help us immeasurably. The longer the list of requirements, however, the higher the chance of us doing it wrong / not doing it in time. What is utterly essential? What is desirable?

 

Thanks again for taking the time to come on here and help us with Photo,

 

Andy.

[billtils]

Thanks Andy - much relieved!   And yes, I will be delighted to give you the specific feedback requested (but will not be able to give it serious attention for a day or so due to other commitments).

 

Regards

 

 

Bill

[Alan9940]

 

I don't think that we ever said "the Designer users just got used to it" though.. We said that, often, Designer users could find all the options they required by burrowing a little deeper into the standard OS X print dialogs - as billtils has already pointed out..

 

Hello Andy,

 

Just to set the record straight this is exactly what you said on 25 February 2015:

 

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Hello guys,

 

We've had similar complaints to this for Designer - our apps just present whatever document you have to the OS X printer driver, and it lays them up how it sees fit. Most of the Designer users who had problems found that they could make the corrections they required in the Print dialog, and it all ended well..

 

I'm not saying we don't have some issues / missing functionality here - I'm just trying to get a handle on exactly what we are missing..

 

Thanks,

 

Andy.

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I guess one could look at these two replies as saying the same thing. But...please allow me to stress, once again, that a HUGE number of digital photographers PRINT their images. There is no amount of digging deeper into the OS X print driver interface (I only have experience with Epson and Canon) that will provide all the functionality required. That said, as Bill has already stated I, too, will work up some specific feedback on what I feel is necessary in AP print UI, but it is going to take a bit of time.

 

Thank you for listening and for your willingness to consider our suggestions.

 

Best regards,

AlanH

[billtils]

Andy

 

Do you have copies of Aperture, Lightroom and CaptureOne?  Probably the easiest way to deal with this is to reference specific elements in their printer UIs as being essential, important, desirable, or not needed in the AP interface.

[billtils]

Andy and Alan, how about for starters "please give us the same functionality as Lightroom"?

 

Andy, I know that some of these can be accessed already in various places in AP (e.g. the colour management settings) but when you are printing a set of say 4 x 6 images to review before selecting the final size and tweaks, it is way more convenient to be able to do it all from the printing UI rather than switch between it and one or more other places in AP.

[Alan9940]

Bill,

 

I guess looking at how LR handles printing is certainly a reasonable point of reference. But, there are things one can do during the printing phase in LR, like output sharpening, for example, that may not be needed or even wanted in AP. I really liked your idea of classifying UI items as: essential, important, desirable, not needed.

 

I think the "sticky wicket" in this discussion will be exactly: What point of reference shall we use for required printing UI in AP. At first blush, I'd say "gimmie the same thing I can do in PS." On second thought, I'd say "Wow, it would be GREAT if we had the same printing UI as in PhotoLine." IMO, the printing UI in PhotoLine is even more powerful than PS; actually it's much closer to what LR provides.

 

All this said, however, it has been awhile since I looked at printing out of AP because I dismissed it immediately when I saw how basic it all was and that I couldn't do what I needed. I plan to take a hard look at it and provide my suggestions in this thread; just haven't had the time, yet.

 

Best regards,

AlanH

[Alan9940]

Hello Andy,

 

OK, I've taken another look at the AP printing interface and IMO this is what we (aka photographers who print their work) need:

 

AP Print Dialog (doesn't exist as of latest beta):

 

* Specify printer

* Set number of copies

* Set layout (portrait or landscape)

* Establish color management desired (AP manages or printer driver)

     ** Color handling (AP / driver)

     ** Paper profile

     ** Rendering intent (Perceptual / Colorimetric)

     ** Black Point Compensation (on / off)

* Position & Size

     ** Center (should allow setting coordinates if not centering)

     ** Scaling (scale to fit) Note: scaling is also in the driver and may suffice

 

The following items (for me) would fall under the category of "not needed" but desirable:

 

* Print selected area

* Printing marks (crop / registration)

* Misc Functions (negative / set background color / border / bleed)

 

Not sure where to put the following, but it's required! Normally, these types of settings would fall under a Page Setup dialog. I suppose it could be incorporated into the AP print dialog along with everything else:

 

* Paper Settings

     ** Source (sheet / roll / rear / front)

     ** Paper size

 

The AP Print dialog would then pass off to the printer driver dialog to complete needed settings there. Or, a Print Settings button could be available in the AP Print UI allowing access to the printer driver stuff. Of course, after everything is all set one hits "Print."

 

Also, to my mind the Document>Resize Document dialog is a very close cousin to the printing dialog. I and others have mentioned this in other threads, but the AP resize dialog should allow me to change the pixel density without resampling, and should show me the document size as I modify parameters. Of course, this dialog would allow me to maintain aspect ratio or not, as desired. It should also allow me to resample my file and pick desired interpolation method. In other words, exactly how the Image Size dialog works in Photoshop (I have attached a screenshot for your review.)

 

Sorry, I don't mean to harp on the AP developers and I know the software is still in beta, but sitting out here as a potential AP user it seems as if the developers have never seen existing image editors and/or other raw converters. Are there any digital photographers on the development staff? To my mind, many things that are asked for and/or discussed on this forum seem to be so basic that it makes one wonder...

 

I hope what I've outlined here actually gets read by you and passed on to the developers, and that others will jump in with their needs and suggestions.

 

Best regards,

AlanH

 

 

[billtils]

Just a few modifications/ comments to add to Alan's list:

 

In the first set of requirements, "Position and Size" has to include the actual print size and the option to create just one or a number of prints per page (i.e. be able to make what is essentially a contact sheet).

 

I'm not fussed either way with the things in the "Desirable" list - nice to have but wouldn't weep if we didn't.

 

I think that paper settings would be integrated anyway from most printer drivers, and in some cases the source would be automatic once the paper size is specified.  But being able to identify it would be nice - I often keep 2 different papers in the printer not for size but rather one for B&W prints and one for colour.

 

Agree with the pixel density/resize comments.

 

 

Regards, Bill

[gkush]

Agree with what has been stated re: need for comprehensive print dialog/options.  The one thing I didn't see mentioned was the ability to select either portrait or landscape.  I was able to get to the point of printing 4x6, but it printed landscape in portrait orientation.

[billtils]

Welcome to the AP beta forum gkush, and thanks for your input on this.

 

Yes, it's there in Alan's list, third bullet point "Set layout (portrait or landscape)"

[Achim63]

Though I agree that the printing options are not up to par with other apps, the paper size can be set (see screenshot - sorry, it's German, I was too lazy to switch OSX and AP to English first) - there's quite a lot of options hidden in Apple's print dialog, you can even save preferred setups as presets. I'm missing the usual paper setup dialog, though, where you can define those presets and select portrait or landscape (usually sitting next to the print command in the menu, shortcut CMD+SHIFT+P).

 

[billtils]

Yes indeed Achim63, there are several printing options that can be accessed as things are, but the problem is that there is not an effective printing UI where they all reside and can be readily accessed.  The user experience is just so much better with the competitor apps when it comes to printing.  But we have been assured that it's going to get better (and given the progress in other areas, I am confident that we will indeed get there!).

[Alan9940]

@billtils - Thanks, Bill, for mentioning the ability to setup multiple images per page; I forgot that one since I usually print one-up.

 

@Achim63 - Yes, I'm fully aware of the paper size options within the OS X printer driver, but notice that checkbox one activates to get those paper size options; it has the word "scaling" in it! I certainly don't know the deep technical workings within these drivers, but I'm willing to bet there is interpolation of the data going on to fit your file to whatever paper size is selected. Think about it... The only "size" your file has is based on native resolution and whatever PPI you currently have set. For example, with my Canon 5D II a PPI of 300 will give me a nice full print on 13x19 paper. If I change the PPI to 180, I'm going to get a huge print! OK, if I send my 300 PPI file to the driver and select 8.5 x 11 as my output, then the driver has to do something to fit that data on to that smaller page size. Therefore, for me I don't want the printer driver scaling my data!

 

Best regards,

AlanH

[Andy Somerfield]

"I hope what I've outlined here actually gets read by you and passed on to the developers, and that others will jump in with their needs and suggestions."

 

I *am* a Photo developer - one of two - the other being Justin..

 

Good suggestions so far guys - hopefully we can make a start on this next week!

 

Andy.

[Alan9940]

OMG...I didn't realize there are only two of you working on AP!! Having spent 38 years of my career in IT with quite a few of those years being in software development, all I can say is: A professional tip-o-da-hat to you both, considering what you've done so far! Simply amazing!!

 

And, THANKS!!

 

Best regards,

AlanH

[billtils]

Andy - I'm speechless with admiration and totally agree with what Alan says, simply amazing what you have accomplished!

 

And thank you so much for taking it on board!!

 

 

Best

 

 

Bill